Free OSR - Delving Deeper (White Box Clone)

My son! The Original White Box begat Swords & Wizardry, which itself begat the Swords & Wizardry White Box. Alas, by then, the Swords & Wizardry White Box had strayed too far from its source material, and this begat Delving Deeper, an attempt to be closer to the "true" White Box. So it is written.

Delving Deeper is a legal emulation of the original 1974 fantasy role-playing game published under the Open Game License. As well as being a game in its own right, Delving Deeper is also a legal platform for publishing supporting material compatible with the “Original Edition” games.

Why Original Edition?

0e games are accessible! A player needs to know so few rules that even a novice can immediately jump in and get involved. The rules themselves are coarse grained and uncomplicated which makes the mechanics easy to grasp, and game play fast.

Delving Deeper is pitched at just the right level of abstraction to facilitate dungeon, town, and wilderness exploration as well as combat scenarios from man-to-man duels to veritable battles involving superheroes, dragons, or scores of orcs. What might take hours to resolve with more “advanced” rules might take mere minutes to resolve in 0e.

 

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The OSR for the Lapsed Gamer - The Free PDFs - Delving Deeper

I apologize for the gap between entries in the series of posts for the OSR for the Lapsed Gamer. It has been a busy week.

This time around, we are looking at Delving Deeper, which is a reimagining of the Dungeons & Dragons White Box, with the addition of thieves - but not the thieves you have grown to know. Thieves are, however, and optional class, and you can leave them out to go purely White Box if desired.

Delving Deeper makes the claim that "there was no faithful emulation of the original 1974 edition. Until now." I'm not going to dig out my D&D White Box to verify that, but it certainly hews closer than the S&W White Box or LL OEC.

The thief is the big change. Instead of percentage chances to their skills that increase with level, they roll a D6. On a 3 or higher, they succeed. They can attempt to decipher treasure maps at 3rd level with the same chances and magic-user scrolls at 9th level. A roll of 3 the spell goes off but is reversed.

There were comments on an earlier post I made about Delving Deeper that imply that the original, fan created pre-Greyhawk thief class originally used d6s for skill resolution.

Two years after that first post, I'm very tempted to houserule the thieves in my S&W games to use the DD skill roles for their abilities. It simply makes them more relevant.

In any case, Delving Deeper is an excellent choice of rulesets if one wants a more authentic OD&D experience than the other clones offer (and easier to make heads or tails of than the originals it is based upon.) DD does not have the following of the other clones that have been mentioned thus far in this series of posts, but the price is right (free) and it certainly is a nice presentation of the rules.

Free RPG Day Pick #12 - Delving Deeper ("White Box" Clone)

Of the numerous clones of the original flavors of D&D, Delving Deeper often gets overlooked, which is a shame. It hues fairly close to the original White Box and all you need to play is included in three small PDFs.

The price is right at free, so why not check it out?

Comparing OD&D to it's Nearest Clones - S&W Whitebox and Delving Deeper - Part IV: Weapons & Combat

Well, with the soon (alright, November) release of the "Deluxe" Reprinting of the Original Dungeons & Dragons Boxed set, this might all be moot, right? Because we're all going to be shelling out $150 for a new reprint of a cloned game. Well, actually, I might be one of the many suckers myself, but whatever ;)

So, when it comes to the Original and it's two main clones, how close is the combat system amongst them all?

Weapon (and armor) costs between OD&D and the Swords & Wizardry White Box are nearly identical across the board, which is kind of surprises me. I mean, sure, they changed up the order of the items, but except for things like the spear, the prices are the same. Delving Deeper changes up the prices to the point where you can't even figure out if there was a forumla they used - little rhyme or reason. Sure, it's a minor thing, but something that stands out none the less.

Damage for all weapons in the OD&D WB is 1d6, no matter the type or size. Of course, I can't actually find that rule, but I know it well. Damage in DD is also 1d6, no matter the weapon. Damage in S&W WB is 1d6, or + or -1 depending on the weapon. So, some diversity, but still based on the 1d6 concept for all weapons.

As for Attack Matrixes, things get a little complicated.

OD&D WB, a 1st level Fighting-Man needs an 18 to hit AC 2. Actually, that applies to 1st level Clerics and Magic-Users too. Every 3 levels (starting at 4th) a Fighting-Man moves up a step on the Combat Matrix (every 4 levels for Clerics and every 5 for Magic-Users). Each step on the Combat Matrix is an improvement of 2 to 3 points to the chance to hit. Phew!

DD starts Fighters with an 18 for AC 2, but Clerics and Magic-Users start at 19. Fighters improve by + 1 every other level or every level, Clerics are similar but slower and Magic-Users every other level get + 1.

S&W WB starts everyone at a 17 to hit AC 2 (there's also an acceding AC option, but we'll avoid that for now). Otherwise, the breakdown of the combat charts are similar to DD. Not exact, but similar.

So, snapshots:

A Fighting-Man (Fighter) 1st Level against AC 2 needs: OD&D 18 / DD 18 / S&W WB 17

A Fighting Man (Fighter) 5th Level against AC 2 needs: OD&D 15 / DD 15 / S&W WB 14

A Fighting Man (Fighter) 10th Level against AC2 needs: OD&D 10 / DD 11 / S&W WB 11

Interesting how S&W WB starts out with the better attack chance, and winds up tied for the worst

Comparing OD&D to it's Nearest Clones - S&W Whitebox and Delving Deeper - Part III: The Classes (Demihumans)

Now we peek at the demihumans:

(as I have all of these in PDF, I'll be copying the relevant parts and making comments from there)

Original Dungeons & Dragons

Dwarves:  Dwarves may opt only for the fighting class, and they may never progress beyond the 6th level (Myrmidon). Their advantages are: 1) they have a high level of magic resistance, and they thus add four levels when rolling saving throws (a 6th level dwarf equals a 10th level human);2) they are the only characters able to fully employ the +3 Magic War Hammer (explained in Volume II); 3) they note slanting passages, traps, shifting walls and new construction in underground settings; and 4) they are able to speak the languages of Gnomes, Kobolds and Goblins in addition to the usual tongues

Elves (these folks get tricky): Elves can begin as either Fighting-Men or Magic-Users and freely switch class whenever they choose, from adventure to adventure, but not during the course of a single game. Thus, they gain the benefits of both classes and may use both weaponry and spells. They may use magic armor and still act as Magic-Users. However, they may not progress beyond 4th level Fighting-Man (Hero) nor 8th level Magic-User (Warlock). Elves are more able to note secret and hidden doors. They also gain the advantages noted in the CHAINMAIL rules (I guess if you don't have the Chainmail rules you're crap outa luck for those advantages)when fighting certain fantastic creatures. Finally, Elves are able to speak the languages of Orcs, Hobgoblins, and Gnolls in addition to their own (Elvish) and the other usual tongues.

Halflings: Should any player wish to be one (I guess Raggi wasn't far off in making them a "throw away" class - heck, ACKS leaves the race out altogether), he will be limited to the Fighting-Men class as a halfling. Halflings cannot progress beyond the 4th level (Hero), but they will have magic-resistance equal to dwarves (add four levels for saving throws), and they will have deadly accuracy with missiles as detailed in CHAINMAIL.

Other Character Types: There is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as virtually anything, provided they begin relatively weak and work up to the top, i.e., a player wishing to be a Dragon would have to begin as let us say, a "young" one and progress upwards in the usual manner, steps being predetermined by the campaign referee. (this goes far in showing just how "open" OD&D was meant to be)


Delving Deeper

Dwarves: Dwarfs are as fighters excepting that they are the only characters able to employ the +3 war hammer to its full potential. They are adept at evading large, clumsy enemies and suffer only half damage from such foes as giants and ogres (i'm guessing this comes from a later supplement or Chainmail?). Moreover, a dwarf makes all saving throws at four levels higher than his actual level (I would have read the original as applying only to magic attacks and spells, but I can see the justification for this way of reading it). He is, however, limited to the 6th level of advancement.

Dwarfs are expert miners and able to note any new construction, shifting walls, slopes, falling slabs, false floors and the like in dungeon stonework. They are also able to discern noises on a roll of 5-6 (on a six-sided die) when listening at doors.

Additionally, dwarfs are able to speak the language of gnomes, goblins and kobolds, in addition to the Common tongue and their own language.

Elves: Elves begin as either fighters or magic-users, but can change class between adventures as often as desired. An elf becomes dual-classed when he changes class for the first time, and may thereafter use both the weaponry of a fighter and the spells of a magic-user simultaneously.

The dual-classed character must maintain separate experience point totals for each of his classes, with all earned experience going toward his currently active class. He uses the more favorable game statistics of both classes during play, but cannot act as a magic-user while wearing non-magical armor.

Elves deal +1 hit point of damage when employing magic weapons and are able to move and fire a bow without penalty when on foot. They are nearly invisible in their gray-green cloaks, and can move almost silently. Additionally, they are able to locate secrets doors on a roll of 3-6 on a six-sided die when actively searching, or on a roll of 5-6 when merely passing by. They also discern noises on a roll of 5-6 when listening at doors and are immune to the paralyzing touch of ghouls.

They are, however, limited to 4th level as fighters and to 8th level as magic-users.

Elves are able to speak the languages of gnolls, hobgoblins, and orcs, as well as their own language, their alignment tongue, and Common.

Halflings: Halflings can choose to be fighters, but are limited to the 4th level. They have deadly accuracy with missiles, adding +1 to attack rolls, and discern noises on a roll of 5-6 on a six-sided die when listening at doors. Despite his diminutive stature, a halfling is highly resilient and makes all saving throws at four levels higher than his actual level. (at least there isn't a comment saying "should a player wish to be one")

Swords & Wizardry WhiteBox

The Dwarf: Dwarves tend to grow up in underground cities. As such, Dwarves easily take note of certain features of stonework: sloping corridors, moving walls, and traps made of stone (in particular: falling blocks, rigged ceilings, and tiny slits designed to release arrows, darts, or poison gas). There are no established rules or die roll for making use of these abilities; exactly what the Dwarf does or does not perceive is for the Referee to decide.

Dwarven Race Abilities

Character Advancement: The only character class available to Dwarves is that of the Fighter, and they are typically allowed to advance only as high as 6th level.

Weapon and Armor Restrictions: Like human Fighters, Dwarves have been trained in warfare and have no restrictions on the weapons or armor they may use.

Fighting Giants: Giants, ogres, and similar giant-type creatures such as trolls are not good at fighting dwarves, and only inflict half the normal damage against them. (i'm guessing this comes from a later supplement or Chainmail?)

Keen Detection: Dwarves are good at spotting traps, slanting passages, and construction while underground.

Saving Throw: Dwarves do not use magic and, as such, are somewhat immune to its effects; they receive a +4 bonus on saving throws vs. magic (whether or not the alternate “Saving Throw Matrix” is used). (see, I would interpret the save bonus this way too)

Languages: For campaigns that give each race its own dialect, Dwarves should be able to speak with gnomes, goblins, orcs, and kobolds.

The Elf: The Referee can interpret Elves in many different ways. Are they faerie-folk of Irish legend, the Vanir of Norse mythology, or perhaps something more akin to the Elves of Tolkien’s imagination?

As a baseline, most Elves are associated with magic as well as being skilled with the sword and bow. The Elven adventurer may choose, on any given day—perhaps when the moon rises—whether to use the capabilities of the Fighter or Magic-user. As a result, the Elf has two alternate advancement paths (experience points, hit dice, saving throws, “to-hit” bonuses, etc.) depending upon whether he donned steel that day or summoned up the power to cast spells.

Elves must use a spell book to prepare spells, just as a Magic-user. Spells disappear from his casting capability once they are cast, until prepared again.

Elven Race Abilities

Character Advancement: Elves may use either the Fighter or Magic-user class advancement charts, to be announced at the start of an adventure. They are typically allowed to progress only to 4th level as Fighters and 8th as Magicusers.

Weapon and Armor Restrictions: When an Elf adventures as a Magic-user, the character has the same weapon and armor limitations as a Magic-user. The exception to this would be magic armor, which may still be worn even when the Elf is acting as a Magic-user.

Hereditary Foes: Elves gain an extra +1 (“to-hit” or to damage) when fighting goblins, orcs, intelligent undead, and lycanthropes. Elves are also immune to paralysis caused by undead such as ghouls.

Keen Detection: Elves are good at spotting hidden and concealed doors (1-4 on a d6 when searching, 1-2 on a d6 if just passing by).

Languages: For campaigns that give each race its own dialect, Elves should be able to speak with gnolls, goblins, orcs, and hobgoblins.

The Halfling:  Halflings are short, often stout, and live in shires, rustic communities that are usually remote from those of larger folk. A few of them have a mildly adventurous spirit, enough to venture forth for a while at least, exploring the world beyond the farms and fields of the local shire.

Halfling Race Abilities

Character Advancement: The only character class available to Halflings is that of the Fighter, and they are typically allowed to advance only as high as 4th level.

Weapon and Armor Restrictions: Like human Fighters, the Halfling has no weapon or armor restrictions.

Fighting Giants: Giants, ogres, and similar giant-type creatures such as trolls are not good at fighting small creatures such as halflings and dwarves, and only inflict half the normal damage against them.

Deadly Accuracy with Missiles: Halflings receive a +2 “to-hit” when firing missile weapons in combat.

Near Invisibility: When not engaged in combat, Halflings can be quite stealthy, making themselves hard to spot and moving in almost total silence.

Saving Throw: Halflings are somewhat immune to magic, and receive +4 on saving throws vs. magic (even if the “Saving Throw Matrix” is used).

Languages: For campaigns that give each race its own dialect, Halflings should be able to speak with creatures that fit the style of the Referee’s campaign.

Both Delving Deeper and Swords & Wizardry Whitebox flesh out the races with combat abilities "kinda" detailed in Chainmail. I know the Elves Secret Door Detection is iconic, I just dont see it in book 1 of OD&D (it could be there and I just dont see it). Interesting how DD goes for the low roll and S&W WB goes for the low roll.

I'd have to say that S&W WhiteBox is the better organized of the three so far, although DD does a decent job of explaining things and keeping it short.

Comparing OD&D to it's Nearest Clones - S&W Whitebox and Delving Deeper - Part II: The Classes (Core Three / Four)

Now we move on to the meat of the matter: the classes. This post will deal with the "Core Three / Four".

Original Dungeons & Dragons:

Here we have three classes (although many see the Thief as "core" it wasn't initially. That being said, we will use Supplement I to cover the Thief class). Fighting-Men, Magic-Users and Clerics. Then we have Dwarves (Fighting Men), Elves (Fighting Men and Magic-users) and Halflings (piss poor Fighting Men). Organization of the presentation of the classes is piss poor, but that is part and parcel of the OD&D presentation of classes. Some call it charm. I call it something that the clones definitely got right.

Fighting-Men - Can use all magical weaponry. More hit dice.

Magic-Users - Can use "a whole plethora of enchanted items". Wizards (11th level) and above may create magic items. Spells obviously

Clerics - Can use magic armor and all non-edged magic weapons and can cast Cleric Spells as well as Turn Undead. At 7th level must declare for either Law or Chaos

Thieves (Greyhawk Supplement) - Thief skills increase per level as a percentage, except for Hear Noise, which is bases on a d6. I can't find backstab info for thieves in Greyhawk. Maybe I missed it.  Bottom of page 4 - found it thanks to Eldric IV :)

Delving Deeper:

The Fighter - Can use the majority of magic weaponry, withstands more damage, against enemies 1+1 HD or less gains 1 attack per level.

The Magic-user - Greatest selection of enchanted items. At 9th level can enchant items of his own. and of course spells

The Cleric - Must choose law or chaos. Can use armor and shields, but edged and piercing weapons are prohibited. At 2nd level gains a spell book of first level spells. (WTF?). Turn undead.

The Thief (optional class) - thief skills succeed on a 3-6 on a D6 - no matter the level. Can read magic-user spells scrolls at 9th level. Backstab is +4 hit, with 2 dice of damage for every 4 levels or fraction thereof.

Swords & Wizardry WhiteBox:

The Fighter - Can use all weapons and armor.  Against foes 1 HD or lower, 1 attack per level.

The Magic-user - No mention of creating magic items.

The Cleric - Blunt weapons and any armor. Spells. Turn Undead

The Thief - ain't got none ;)

So, my observations:

Delving Deeper makes a claim that it keeps closer to the original, but I don't see it just yet. Since when did Clerics have Spell Books? (since page 34 apparently)

I've heard it mentioned that the DD Thief class is based on so "proto" version before the published version in Greyhawk. Whatever, it's not based on a published version - the one that EGG presented. It doesn't feel "right". If you are going to make the argument that you are closer to the original than other clones, why stray so far?

Both DD and S&W WB have fighters getting multiple attacks against 1HD creatures. I remember that from AD&D, I haven't found it yet in the OD&D set, but God himself knows where it might be buried ;)

The Three "White Boxes" of D&D and It's Clones

I find it interesting that the Delving Deeper box is more subdued in coloring. The "white" is less white than the S&W WhiteBox and the black ink has a built in fade to the color - almost like the box was aged.

Something you can't see in this photo is that the S&W WhiteBox and the Delving Deeper have their title on the short end sides and artwork on the long end sides. Pretty nifty.

It's similar with the X-Plorers boxed sets (I have numbers 52 and 60).

Anyhow, I'll continue with the comparison look tomorrow.

Comparing OD&D to it's Nearest Clones - S&W Whitebox and Delving Deeper - Part I: The Abilities

I really need a better title for this series of posts i if you think of one, let me know;)

Anyhow, with the recent arrival of my Deeper Delving Boxes set, I thought it might be fun to compare it to the Original Dungeons & Dragons Boxed Set. Then I figured "Why not add in S&W Whitebox to the mix?" Really, why not? My boxed set is packed away in storage, and my paperback version is currently hiding on me, but I do have the PDF of the 3rd printing.

Remember, if you want to play along at home, the PDFs for Delving Deeper and S&W Whitebox are free. You can find links to both to the right of this post, under the heading FREE OSR GAMES.

The character book for OD&D is called Men & Magic (it also includes the spells), it's called Forging a Hero in DD and the S&W PDF isn't really broken down into separate books.

Original Dungeons & Dragons Abilities Section -

Horribly organized, but the same could be said about most of the LBBs. I'm sure some of this info is hidden in other books.

Prime Requisite of 13 or 14 for 5% expo bonus. 15+ for 10% expo bonus. 8 or 7 1-% penalty. 6 or less 20% penalty.

Strength: no bonuses listed. Mentions in description "will also aid in opening traps"

Intelligence: no bonuses listed. "Allows additional languages to be spoken"

Wisdom: no bonuses listed

Dexterity: above 12 (that's confusing) + 1 missile fire, under 9 - 1 missile fire

Constitution: 15+ + 1 HP per hit die. 13 or 14 "Will withstand adversity" (huh?) and some other survival %'s for lower cons

Dexterity: above 12 (that's confusing) + 1 missile fire, under 9 - 1 missile fire

Charisma: full chart breaking down number of hirelings and loyalty bonus based on Charisma score

Delving Deeper Player Characters Section -

Much better organized than OD&D, but what isnt? (answer - Tunnels & Trolls 5e)

Prime Requisite of 13 - 15 for 5% expo bonus. 16+ for 10% expo bonus. 6 - 8 10% penalty. 5 or less 20% penalty. So, a bit harder to get + 10% expo.

Strength: 15+ + 1 damage in melee. Full chart for opening door and movement by weight load.

Intelligence: Languages Known chart (applies to Wisdom too - use higher of the two)

Wisdom: Languages Known chart (applies to Intelligence too - use higher of the two)

Dexterity: 15+ for + 1 missile fire. 6- for -1 adjustment.

Constitution: 15+ + 1 HP per hit die. Includes a proper chart with "Survive Shock" %. 13+ will always survive. So, makes more sense than the original.

Charisma - full chart breaking down number of retainers and loyalty bonus based on Charisma score. Mirrors original exactly except for max number of retainers / hirelings (max is 10 in DD, 12 in OD&D)

Swords & Wizardry White Box "Getting Started" -

Puts Con before Dex on the character sheet. Weird. Crapload of optional rules baked in for you to choose from that bring things closer to OD&D (or further, depending on the alternate rules). Why the original method wasn't default and the new methods weren't the alternates? no idea

Prime Requisite: 15+ 5%, Wis 15+ 5%, Cha 15+ 5%. Very different

Strength: No bonuses listed

Intelligence: 1 additional language for each point of Int above 10

Wisdom: No bonuses listed

Constitution: 15+ + 1 to each Hit Die. 6- - 1 to each Hit Die

Dexterity: 15+ + 1 to hit bonus with ranged weapons. 8- -1 penalty.

Charisma: Chart maxes out with even lower Max # of Hirelings (7) and a lower max Loyalty Bonus (+ 2 instad of + 4)

Charisma slipped to the next page

Thinking of Comparing the Delving Deeper and Dungeons & Dragons OCE Boxed Sets, Side by side

The thought has occurred to me to compare to Delving Deeper Boxed Set with the Original D&D Boxed set (with Greyhawk included for the purpose of the Thief Class).

The Thief classes do not match up, but that was discussed earlier, and I received a nice history lesson at the same time. It still irks me though ;)

What I really should do is break out my Swords & Wizardry White Box, but I believe that's in storage. I do have the paperback version floating around though.

I will say this much - the originals lie flatter, allowing me to fit more stuff in the box ;)

I'll be making some observations throughout the week I expect. On of the benefits of being on vacation...

The Delving Deeper Box Has Arrived - Much Delayed But Bursting at the Seams

The Photo is Askew, Not the Box ;)

Delving Deeper arrived today. Holy shit but the box was packed. It included the 5 rulebooks, Blackmarsh as the setting (I think you need to download the map on RPGNow, as I didn't see one - but hey, it's free there too) and a stack of character sheets. Definitely a nice touch.

It seems that everything couldn't fit into the box, so there will be a second shipment at a later point which will include dice, sample modules and Zack Howard's Holmes supplement (I need to research this).

I'll dig through this over the weekend and give it a proper review.

BTW, Delving Deeper is free on RPGNow

Delving Deeper Offers Original Flavored D&D For Free

It's been a heck of a wait, but if you are looking for some Original Flavored D&D, Delving Deeper might just be your game.

Did I mention it's free in PDF?

Three booklets are in the release

The Adventurer's Handbook - which is where the classes reside

The Referee's Guide - where you find the rules for running the game

The Monster & Treasure Reference - where you find monsters and treasure. What, were you expecting a tricky type of answer? heh

You can grab all three together at the link above.

From the blurb:


What is the Delving Deeper RPG?

Delving Deeper is an emulation of the original fantasy role-playing game.

Meticulously forged over two long years of development, Delving Deeper invites you to recreate the original role-playing experience as it was in its earliest days.

Return to a time when three alignments were enough, when a handful of character classes ruled, and when magic swords had their own ideas about who's boss.

If you’ve ever read or watched a good fantasy with hungry eyes, then this is the game for you. Right here are all the rules you'll need, none of the rules you won't, and unparalleled room for expansion and growth. Grab your trusty sword, your magic wand, and call the guards to arms! There are treasures in these pages...

Will the Real Original Elf Class Please Stand Up? (Delving Deeper and S&W White Box)

Elves in Delving Deeper:


Elves begin as either fighters or magic-users, but can change class between adventures as often as desired. An elf becomes dual-classed when he changes class for the first time, and may thereafter use both the weaponry of a fighter and the spells of a magic-user simultaneously.

The dual-classed character must maintain separate experience point totals for each of his classes, with all earned experience going toward his currently active class. He uses the more favorable game statistics of both classes during play, but cannot act as a magic-user while wearing non-magical armor.

Elves in Swords & Wizardry White Box:


The Elven adventurer may choose, on any given day (perhaps when the moon rises) whether to use the capabilities of a Magic-user or of a Fighter. As a result, the Elf has access to either the Fighter or Magic-user chart for to-hit bonuses and saving throws, depending upon whether he donned steel that day or summoned up the power to cast spells.

Character Advancement: Elves may use either theFighter or Magic-user class advancement charts, to be announced at the start of an adventure. They are typically allowed to progress as high as fourth level as a Fighter or eighth level as a Magic-user.

Weapon/Armor Restrictions: Elves have general limitations similar to those of Magic-users, but are allowed to wear special Elven chain mail while adventuring as a Magic-user.

and the Variant Elf in S&W White Box:


Some Referees may want to allow the Elf to advance as a blend of Fighter and Magic-user instead of switching back and forth. In that model, the following abilities and advancement table might be used instead:

Weapon/Armor Restrictions: Elves would have the advantage of both magic and armor at the same time, so the Referee may limit the Elf to chain mail. Elves may not use shields when casting spells. Elves may not use two-handed weapons (two-handed sword, pole arm) when casting spells.


Why I do these comparisons when I don't have access to my OD&D Boxed Set escapes me, but whatever. I believe the S&W White Box non-variant elf class is truer to the OD&D rules, but I suspect the Delving Deeper version is probably how more groups played it.

Delving Deeper - A Look at Volume III - Monsters and Treasure Reference

Let me bring your attention to the cover of Delving Deeper Vol III - many layers of awesome! I love this cover. Maybe it's because it has a troll and a hairy footed hobbit halfling on the cover. Nice choice and well done.

If you liked the way the OD&D Boxed Set listed it's monsters, you like the set up of the monster section. If you are like me, and hate that part of the OD&D Boxed Set - you won't like it. I understand why it was done this way (emulating the original) but it doesn't mean it was the best choice. It's not horrible, and if this became your ruleset of choice I'm sure you'd grow accustomed to it fast enough, but  it is not user friendly. At least it will be addressed when they do the softcover.

The magic item section is the magic item section you'd expect. Seems pretty close to the other OSR rulesets I've read and the OD&D Boxed Set.

Damn, this means I have to go back and read DD Vol II, which I seem to have skipped over.

Delving Deeper - Quick Comment on the Optional Thief Class

I'm not home at the moment, so I don't have my OCE D&D Boxed set to refer to.  Swords & Wizardry White Box doesn't have a thief class, but Swords & Wizardry Core does.

Here's my comment / observation:

S&W Core's Thief skills are percentile based (except for Hear Noise) and increase with level.

In Delving Deeper, all of the Thief Skills are D6 based: 3 or higher on a D6 indicates success. Level doesn't not increase this.

So, Delving Deeper has a bit of LotFP Weird Fantasy thief to it, but not quite.

I'm fairly sure S&W Core is closer to the original thief class.

I'm not sure if I like the DD version of the thief, but it does make him more relevant at lower levels.

Thoughts?

Looking For an Announcement More Important Than "When Does 5e Release?"

Anyone know when Delving Deeper is going to ship?

It's not like I don't have enough OSR style games... but... I DON"T have enough OSR style games :)

Two Games Are in the Final Stretch

Adventurer Conqueror King System is in final layout.  PDFs should be going out to Kickstarter supporters in the next two weeks with the print copies to follow.  There is still time to preorder:

If you know someone who might be interested in ACKS, send them over to autarch.co! Pre-ordering before the book is widely available gets you the free PDF of Domains of War, plus access to the developer forums where we're enthusiastically developing these mass-combat rules and examining how they fit into the ACKS campaigns folks are already running using the draft rules that are another benefit of pre-ordering.


Crypts & Things has gone to final PDF.  Damn it!  I like both of these systems a lot.  Plus Swords & Wizardry Complete and Castles & Crusades.


What am I going to do when Delving Deeper finally ships?  Heh!

Delving Deeper =/ Original Edition Characters, But Both = Labyrinth Lord

Apparently Brave Halfing's Delving Deeper is going to be directly compatible with the Labyrinth Lord rules (much like their edition of the S&W White Box rules were with Swords & Wizardry).  Which is a very interesting development.

And finally, with the blessing of Dan Proctor, Delving Deeper RPG will be extremely compatible with Labyrinth Lord. Apart from obviously emulating the rules of the same games-of-origin, we are intentionally using Labyrinth Lord mechanics and terminology so that Delving Deeper will be part of the Labyrinth Lord extended family. This means that modules and supplements produced for Delving Deeper will be easily compatible with Labyrinth Lord and vice versa. (From Brave Halfing Publishing's Site)

My question is this: What is up now with LL's Original Edition Characters supplement?  Obviously Delving Deeper is going for a different approach then OEC, but does Delving Deeper really make Labyrinth Lord the Rosetta Clone?  Dan Proctor says so, but if that's the case, what was Labyrinth Lord with OEC and the AEC?  Wasn't that the clone that covered the major editions?

Look, I'm ready to put my cash down for DD, as I know Brave Halfling does top notch stuff, but I thought the break from S&W was to allow then to take their own direction.  This seems like they are hooking their train car to the LL engine... not a bad thing, but not what I expected either.

Still, like I said earlier... a very interesting development.