I remember an article in Dragon Magazine back in the mid 80s. It was about weapon damage by class. All classes could use all weapons, but not all classes could use them effectively.
If the magic-user picks up a long sword, he'd still be limited to d4 damage. Actually, he was limited to d4 damage in all but staff (d6.)
Clerics and thieves were limited to d6 damage and fighters could hit d8 or d10 depending on the weapon.
It solved the problem of the character that wants to wield a long sword like Gandalf without putting long sword damage potential in the wizard's hands.
I never used the variant rule, but it appeals to me these days and I may just introduce it in a future campaign.
Have you ever used class based weapon damage or something similar in your campaigns?
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Tenkar's Tavern is supported by various affiliate programs, including Amazon, RPGNow,
and Humble Bundle as well as Patreon. Your patronage is appreciated and helps keep the
lights on and the taps flowing. Your Humble Bartender, Tenkar
Blogs of Inspiration & Erudition
-
-
Deeper & Deeper Into The Station From Hell - The Red Room's Orbital Decay & Night Owl Workshop's Colonial Troopers - Session Report - Tonight's DM Paul's Colonial Troopers/Orbital Decay campaign and tonight's game picks right up where we were in last week's session. Our scientist Pu ar ...5 hours ago
-
More thoughts on Only Heroes Get to Resist - I've never implemented this rule, but I keep thinking about running a game that would use it: One Heroes Get to Resist I have a few more thoughts on it, n...6 hours ago
-
QuarHammer - I stumbled, addled, into my local semi-rural game store in search of off-brand Contrast paint to finish up Ionus Cryptborn, and while wandering around, I ...15 hours ago
-
More (Mostly Pointless) Messing About - I thought I would try an experiment: I re-scaled one of Bergman's 1:100 Char B-I (bis) models to 1:200 and printed it on my Mars Pro. It's the yellow ...15 hours ago
-
-
grodog's Founders & Legends and GaryCon XVI Convention Reports - 14-25 March 2024 - Part 3 - GaryCon XVI – Thank YOUs and SwagContinued from *Part 1 – Arrival through Founders & Legends and Interregnum Tuesday* and from *Part 2 - GaryCon XVI – 20-2...16 hours ago
-
#AtoZChallenge2024: V is for Vampire - [image: Dracula by Edgar Alfred Holloway] Dracula by Edgar Alfred HollowayLong before I was ever known as the "witch guy" I was the "vampire guy." A lot of...17 hours ago
-
Stonehell: Dipping their toes in the sewer - Session 227 was played on 9/24/23 Morgana, Magic User (Rob) Blotto, Goblin Fighter (Lanse) Koltic, Cleric 7 (NPC) Aroon, Fighter 5 (NPC) Jameth, Fighter 5...18 hours ago
-
AD&D ability tests, streamlined - As I've mentioned in my Hyperborea review (check it pout!), I really liked how the game tries to streamline AD&D ability checks: This is a simpler versi...19 hours ago
-
Gammarauders (1987) - From the web: Each player plays a large cybernetic creature known as a bioborg, which wanders about a radioactive science fiction landscape. Bioborgs are...20 hours ago
-
On preparing adventures for the Ghostbusters RPG - With my mind on a lot of things lately related to West End Games' classic RPG *Ghostbusters*, I was thinking of putting together a blog entry offering so...1 day ago
-
d100 Wasteland Weirdos - Possibly some Charginspire leaked onto our new album. Sampler short https://youtube.com/shorts/Yj7jn40iomM?si=dflfJ10EdYYJqMYr My Gunderholfen solo play...1 day ago
-
Standoff at Sandfell Sea Fort - By MalrexThe Merciless MerchantsOSR/1e/2eLevels 4-7 Eerie lights? Strange noises? Ships are sailing blind into the rough shores of the Bay of Saurvorn. Why...1 day ago
-
A World in a Magazine - Four years ago, I wrote about my history with miniature games and getting back into them during the lockdown. Summer 1995 saw me seduced by the world of ...1 day ago
-
Miskatonic Monday #278: The Viscount Who Left Me - Between October 2003 and October 2013, Chaosium, Inc. published a series of books for *Call of Cthulhu* under the Miskatonic University Library Associati...3 days ago
-
Living Rooms, Beyond the Living Room, and The Open Form Broadside - Living rooms set to liven up your RPG adventures, and a broadside journal set to stimulate those little grey cells... Rob Kuntz's latest releases! *Livin...3 days ago
-
Return to the Known Lands – Session #43 – Beware of Strangers with Magic Swords, Pt. 2 - PCs: - Frakus (Dw FM 3) - Osan (Elf F/MU 4/2) - Omes (Half FM) - Arro (MU 3) NPCs: - Marnes (CL 4) - Burdar (Dw FM 1) -...4 days ago
-
New Printable Scenery Campaign: Ramshackle & Ruin - [image: New Printable Scenery Campaign: Ramshackle & Ruin] I don't know how many of my peeps here are into 3d printing, but I'm always collecting the STL ...1 week ago
-
Play as Sculpture, Play as Prism - Watching my eldest child and friends engaging in imaginative play, I'm often struck by the fact that what seems to excite them is deciding who gets to be...1 week ago
-
OSR: Mirrors, Cubes, Rods, Staves, and the Deck of Motley Things - I've written another 10 pages of the Treasure Overhaul (title pending), a condensed magic item compendium for old-school games. Unlike the first two prev...1 week ago
-
Session #12 & Adventure Sites Compilation - Firstly, I wanted to let everybody know that Adventure Sites I by Coldlight Press is now available as a free download on DriveThruRPG. It includes my own...1 week ago
-
The Evolution of Gaming, or Why My Thoughts on Gaming have Changed Drastically Over Time - I have been thinking about this for quite a long time and though I am not an eloquent man, I thought I should put these random and chaotic thoughts down in...1 week ago
-
The Release of How to Make a Fantasy Sandbox and the Isle of Pyade - The Release With the successful conclusion and fulfillment of my Kickstarter, I am releasing How to Make a Fantasy Sandbox and The Isle of Pyade to the publ...2 weeks ago
-
Clerics of the Flanaess, Part 2 - Sorry it took so long to get to the next article in this series, but here we are! This continues the details of specialty clerics for the World of Greyhawk...2 weeks ago
-
On the Sector Turn - It's very simple. There are many important things cybertechtronically enhanced secret agents need to do: Buy illegal tanks with railguns. "Convince" the...2 weeks ago
-
Arsenic & Old Lace (a Review)... - The free-kriegsspiel revolution (or FKR; sometimes free-kriegsspiel roleplay) has been getting a lot of attention lately, which seems inevitable given re...3 weeks ago
-
The Light Dawns - THIS!!! Yes, a thousand times, this! Back in the day, I referred to this as “neo-classicalgaming,” which is to say, the sorts of games that came ou...3 weeks ago
-
Improvised Awful Lights Missions - Asking about The Awful Lights, a commenter asks: *I'd love to hear about how this is run - with the Handler determining mission location and objectives ...3 weeks ago
-
Jim Ward's Adventure in Gygax's Wonderland - Last weekend at GaryCon, many of us raised a glass to the memory of Jim Ward, who passed away just days before the convention. Ward was very helpful to m...3 weeks ago
-
It’s Tolkien Reading Day - I recently started rereading *The Silmarillion*. I had last read it over two decades ago. I liked it then but I’m really enjoying it this time! Despite b...4 weeks ago
-
Osr anchorites? - It's been a long time since I listened to any osr podcasts. Anchor was a lot of fun. I'm not sure if the community is still going? I deleted the app ...5 weeks ago
-
Chaos War Dogs - Welcome back to the Vault! My gaming partner and I had a fun day at the Meme Team doubles last weekend, placing mid-table results wise. My eye is now lo...5 weeks ago
-
ShadowDark Magic Items - The next campaign I run will use the ShadowDark RPG. I'm not sure when that'll be (I'm hoping a little later this year), but ShadowDark is my choice. I'v...1 month ago
-
Xandering, Jaquaysing, or Arneson-ing the Dungeon? - Yet another gamer firestorm arose shortly after the passing of Janelle Jaquays when it was noted that Justin Alexander had changed a rather well known p...2 months ago
-
GLOG Class: Bioweapon - I got this idea from mad gods on bear blog. Crab Evo from Kagaku Sentai Dynaman A thousand soldiers were slain. Too many to be tragic--this is just a fact...2 months ago
-
The Economy Engine, v0.2 - I made a thing. For D&D 3rd edition, so it might not be that interesting to a lot of people. But I made it and I think it’s cool. The 3rd edition Dungeon M...2 months ago
-
*'s in SpaaaaaAaaaace - A lot of SF (including a certain 2D6 RPG grandaddy) deal with ancient aliens taking humans from Earth and dropping them, fleas and all, on one or more w...2 months ago
-
[MODULE] The Webs of Past and Present & Cloister of the Frog-God (NOW AVAILABLE!) - Can you have enough frog-themed modules? I am pleased to announce the publication of two adventure modules, *The Webs of Past and Present *and *Cloister of...2 months ago
-
What Else Have I Got in Me? - Brechewold's been done for a little while. Still incredibly pumped to have this labor of love out in the company of LotFP's marvelously creative body of ...3 months ago
-
Housekeeping 2024 - Coactus Illustration © Heather Gwinn. A gift she gave me in 2013 for an edition of Miscreated Creatures which I hope exists someday. Coloring by me. I am a...3 months ago
-
Last move - to self-hosting! - As my vote regarding Substack in the “marketplace of ideas”, I’m moving to self-hosting. I’m now at (and hopefully staying for a long time at) Blog: ht...3 months ago
-
Sex-Crazed Falling Stars, Free Weather Magic, and Adventures: News of the Hill Cantons - *Grandma Gaya, the Rav-Witch of High Kezmarok*, seeks the stout of limb and humble of mind in the *obtaining of fallen stars* from an upcoming prophesied ...3 months ago
-
Time Rolls On - Today is December 31, 2023, in the mid-afternoon. In less than ten hours it will be 2024. 2023 2023 was a good year. But all years are good years. Both goo...3 months ago
-
Play Report: Skull Mountain - At the end of the last Skull Mountain session the PCs had retreated to safety at Owen's redoubt, met with visiting elves, and recovered from injuries ...5 months ago
-
-
Moving On... - So, my D&D 5e experiment has blown up the lab in a puff of green smoke leaving my face blackened like Wile E. Coyote after a failed roadrunner Acme trap...10 months ago
-
How to Keep Megadungeons Fresh - People often consider megadungeons boring. Not because the play style is boring, but because they are in the same locale for a majority of the campaign. If...11 months ago
-
ODIOUS UPLANDS and COMPLETELY UNFATHOMABLE DCC AT LAST - NOW AVAILABLE in PDF and Print on Demand:ODIOUS UPLANDS and COMPLETELY UNFATHOMABLE (DCC)CLICK HERE TO BUY NOW! SO YOU SURVIVED OPERATION UNFATHOMABLE? Od...1 year ago
-
The Blade Itself - I just finished listening to the audiobook of The Blade Itself, volume one in Joe Abercrombie’s The First Law trilogy. This was my first exposure to his wo...1 year ago
-
Master Treasure Seeker: A Dungeon23 MegaDungeon - Introduction - Sean McCoy, author of Mothership, posted an article on his substack titled Dungeon23 and it's taken the indie RPG scene by storm. So, I'm throwing my hat...1 year ago
-
Genteel Magistrate at FenCon XVIII - Victorious author Mike Stewart will be a guest at FenCon XVIII this weekend at the Sheraton DFW Airport hotel, 4440 W. John Carpenter Freeway, Irving, TX, ...1 year ago
-
Osamu Tezuka (1928 - 1989) - [image: Osamu Tezuka - Shonen Magazine Cover, 1970]Shonen Magazine Cover, 1970 [image: Osamu Tezuka - Shonen Magazine Cover Illustration 1970]Shonen Maga...1 year ago
-
Helvéczia: Journal de Campagne, 3 - We resumed play this past week, joining the company still within the farmstead where those that remain of the seven knaves are restrained or incapacitate...1 year ago
-
This is an Important Game Mechanic - *"That's the GM's Regional Map from my AOWG. And it's a damned good regional map. It's not a good map for a Simple Homebrew Campaign. It does some s$&...1 year ago
-
Clean Your Room - Looking back at my little blog here. That last post… wow, I was having fun playing WOW Classic! That was August of 1999 and I was having a blast… it was ...2 years ago
-
-
My RPG Zine Trilogy is on Kickstarter! - I can't believe I didn't post about it here! The Dead are Coming, Screams Amongst the Stars and Running Out of Time are on *Kickstarter right now!* Thes...3 years ago
-
Maximum HP 004, one week to go - Just one week to go for Maximum HP issue #004, the undead. We are pushing through stretch goals and wracking up contributions for the best issue yet. We...3 years ago
-
Steve Jackson Interview - James Maliszewski recently did an interview with Steve Jackson over on his Grognardia blog. Steve chats about the beginnings of The Fantasy Trip and upcomi...3 years ago
-
The Hero’s Journey 2nd Edition, Campbellian roleplaying at its best! - (this review done using the reviewers own purchased copy) I have been a James Michael Spahn fan since he wrote his Swords & Wizardry Companion. His writing...3 years ago
-
Undermountain Map Origins - As documented on the Ruins of Undermountain sales page, "TSR didn't actually use Ed Greenwood's original maps," at least not in their entirety. This post d...3 years ago
-
WB:FMAG Total Print Sales - Hello Folks, The last time I did a quick sales report was in September 2018. I pulled reports from Amazon, Lulu and DrivethruRPG from October to current fo...4 years ago
-
The Minotaur for Old-School Essentials - *Minotaur* *Requirements:* Minimum STR 9, Minimum CON 9 *Prime Requisite:* STR and CON *Hit Dice:* 1d10 *Maximum Level:* 8 *Armor:* Leather, including shield...4 years ago
-
WIZARDS OF POHJOLA - Init +0 Melee Atk • sword or dagger +1 (1d5 or 1d3) Ranged Atk • hot iron sparks +3 (1d4+2 to two targets within 20' but not closer than 5') AC 14 HD 12d...4 years ago
-
The Withered Crag custom print version for sale again - Just re-enabled the direct sales button for the custom print (classic style detached cover) version of F4 The Withered Crag, and also for F3 Many Gates of...4 years ago
-
Dungeons & Dragonmead Fall Schedule - *As you know, I run public classic Dungeons & Dragons games at **The Loaded Die**/Metro Detroit Game Night's Board Game Nigh at **Dragonmead**, in Warren...4 years ago
-
-
D&D Sling Damage vs. Large Targets - In many early editions of D&D, weapons were assigned two damage values: one for small/medium targets (i.e. man-sized) and one for large targets (giants and...4 years ago
-
James A. Smith, Jr. Memorial Video - A beloved father, devoted friend, and D&D Dungeon Master extraordinaire. We miss you! To view video, click here Memorial Video Note - The original video...5 years ago
-
Let's Talk About Pacing! - The idea, I think, is that the RPG is ultimately about the long game. Even rolling back to the early days of Basic & Expert, the goal of the player was...5 years ago
-
Profane and Profound Prep Part 2 - This is part 2 of my work to edit my magic items for a DMsGuild release, along with adding cursed items along the way. Here is part 1. Bone of a Saint 8000...5 years ago
-
SHORT BREAK. - I'm going to take a break for a week or so and will start up again in the New Year. Thanks for reading and we'll start with Level 6 when I get back.5 years ago
-
Iain Lovecraft, 3D Sculptor - Nope, it's got nothing to do with Cthulhu. I just did a video conversation with Iain Lovecraft, who designs 3D miniatures and terrain. If you're not doi...5 years ago
-
New website! - Slowly but surely, all the content here will make its way — in updated form! — to my new website: timbannock.com. For fairly obvious reasons, that site wil...5 years ago
-
Please Update Your Link! - If you're seeing this, it means your link to the Greyhawk Grognard blog is out of date. Please update your link to www.greyhawkgrognard.com (RSS feed is h...5 years ago
-
Mord Mar - Session 6 - We weren't able to play Mord Mar last week, due to a family funeral. This week we played on Monday for the first time, due to kids returning to school and ...5 years ago
-
A Small, Quiet Plea - There has been a great deal of discussing political agendas, social grievances, and personal attacks within the little corner of gaming that is my hobby....5 years ago
-
Don’t Sleep It’s Broken - Expanding/editing my comments from What Makes Something Broken G+ thread: “Broken”, for me, is anything that makes normal character choices, tactics, or ro...6 years ago
-
Swords & Wizardry Light-Themed Birthday Party - Last month, my wife and I helped our oldest to celebrate his birthday in style. Ever since 2013, we have hosted a themed birthday party for our now-15-ye...6 years ago
I always felt the to hit tables made the magic users chance to hit so low; and the general lack of damage bonus (how many strong MU aee there) balanced things well enough.
ReplyDeleteI've used it in a few B/X D&D games using the version I posted here ( https://rpgcharacters.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/old-school-dd-weapons-are-cosmetic/ ).
ReplyDeleteIt worked well for those games and it really added some style and flair to a few characters (similar to how the flat "every weapon deals d6 damage" rule works out in play, where characters will wield bolas, long knives. morning stars with spiked snail shells on the end, etc).
I distrusted it but now it is the only thing I run!
ReplyDeleteIt's not a bad idea with a system like D&D where things are abstract, but then one has to come up with unique ways that damage is differentiated. Why vary ones weapons if they do the same damage. This is kind of the same concept with 5E's cantrip rules and variations between characters. The bruisers have high damage weapons, scumbags do lesser damage with light weapons but have Dex damage benefits and magic users have cantrips. At their most basic builds, the characters are the same. It's their class abilities that make them unique.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a bad idea with a system like D&D where things are abstract, but then one has to come up with unique ways that damage is differentiated. Why vary ones weapons if they do the same damage. This is kind of the same concept with 5E's cantrip rules and variations between characters. The bruisers have high damage weapons, scumbags do lesser damage with light weapons but have Dex damage benefits and magic users have cantrips. At their most basic builds, the characters are the same. It's their class abilities that make them unique.
ReplyDeleteOne: that's not what "unique means."
DeleteTwo: it's the roleplaying that makes your character unique (correct usage).
Needless complication to fix a problem inherent in a class-based system with oddball limitations without much justification (see: clerics limited to blunt weapons). The whole thing is so arbitrary and poorly thought out that it's best not to start tugging at loose threads or you'll unravel the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteNo, and I don't see much reason why I ought to either. A battle axe it's going to do more damage than a dagger, no matter who is wielding it. Being able to hit with it is another matter entirely.
ReplyDeleteSee, being proficient in a weapon means you have trained with the weapon. You know how to use it, how it feels in your hand, how to move out so that it goes into the other guy, and that your hand/arm remembers these things in the heat of battle. To say that a wizard is equally proficient with all weapons, but so weak that they all do 1d4 damage regardless is insensible to my mind. Is Gandalf limited to only 1d4 damage with glamdring? Heck no he isn't.
Anyway, I prefer to limit the number of weapons that casters are proficient with rather than the damage they do.
Used it for many years, along with a weapon trait system (ala WHFRP 2e) to differentiate them a bit. Probably my favorite way to play.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Shelby, Proficiency is a better way to do it. It makes more sense, too. Either you know how to use an Axe properly (to get its full damage) or you don't. What's the point in saying a feeble wizard can use the axe, but only do d4 with it? All you're really doing at that point is reflavoring the dagger for the wizard, which is totally fine and I more than support as a concept. These kind of things seem arbitrary until you think about them a little more (like reflavoring the other way, now a fighter can do as much damage with a dagger as he can with a two handed sword, nothanks) and then they start to make more sense, regardless of whether they're arbitrary or not. The vast majority of rules in any of these types of games are arbitrary by nature.
ReplyDeleteYep, use it exclusively. I stole this from Wizardawn: http://wizardawn.and-mag.com/files/bx_wep_arm.pdf
ReplyDeleteGandalf wasn't a magic-user anyway; he was an angel, loosely speaking. Naturally the rules that apply to mortals don't apply to him.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I haven't used this rule and I won't; I prefer damage by weapon type. It doesn't bother me at all to say, "Your MU can't use a two-handed sword at all, it's a game, get over it".
Never fiddled with this option in the groups I have gamed with. We have always tried to stick to the rules as close as possible, unless something seemed better. This variant doesn't seem any better, just different. It might work in some games, not in others. We have never used it, and never noticed anything wrong with the standard rules. Your Mileage May Vary..
ReplyDeleteThe ability to learn proficiency in a particular type of weapon is an important one, in my view. Feats just seem too artificial and arbitrary.
ReplyDeleteI'm biased of course, but I rather like what I did with Crimson Dragon Slayer. If one uses a weapon enough in battle, even if he sucks with it currently, he eventually improves. Not because of a level or class feature (though characters start out with class-based weapon proficiencies). No, the poor bastard stuck with it until he learned a thing or two... even if using that two-handed sword or whatever ended up getting him killed along the way. It feels old school even though it isn't.
I tried hit-die based weapon damage for a campaign once. I didn't like it.
ReplyDeleteInstead of players picking unique weapons for their characters, in order to given them flare and style, they use the magical weapons they've found with the highest plusses.
Thanks to the way treasure tables work, pretty soon everyone is swinging around magical swords. But not before the guy who started with an axe switched to a +1 spear for a while, then a +2 bow, then moved on to swords like everyone else... that sort of thing.
I've got to give it the old Mike Myers, thick Scottish brogue, "IT'S CRAP!!!"
Players pick weapons based on how much damage they do regardless of what system you use. The restrictions on weapons based on class didn't ever make sense. Weapon damage is just a die roll, whether the magic-user is using a staff or a sword. I think opening up all weapons to all classes (restricted by wielder's size and proficiency) creates more variation with the characters. Not all clerics are going to use a mace, not all magic-users are going to use a staff.
Delete>I think opening up all weapons to all classes (restricted by wielder's size and proficiency) creates more variation with the characters.
DeleteI do that anyway. Only I don't use proficiency.
But different weapons are still going to cause different damage, and players pick what's best according to the situation.
Sorry, I don't mean proficiency as 2nd ed. AD&D proficiency. With Wizardawn's charts, the proficiency is implied with the amount of damage a class can do with a weapon. In his charts, fighters do the most possible damage with a weapon of any size. Clerics and Thieves may use the same weapons as fighters, but they can never do as much possible damage as a fighter. Magic-users do the least amount of damage with any of the weapons. So if the magic-user you've imagined has a bastard sword, she can. But she'll never do as much damage with as a fighter could because fighters specialize and are proficient with all sorts of weapons.
DeleteYup. I varied it a little by having light, regular, and great weapons -- light weapons generally did d4 (but d6 for a fighter) and great weapons did one die type higher (so d10 for a fighter, this was B/X based). Light weapons were usually throwable, great weapons either had reach or +1 to hit, and flails bypass shields. Very similar to the 3rd option on linked wizardawn pdf.
ReplyDelete