My Thought on Amending Saves vs. Death

While I technically started playing something akin to D&D in the winter of 78/79, I'm probably better off saying that my first "real" D&D experience was in 6th grade....so spring 1983? We had some weird elective period thing where I elected to sling dice out of the Magenta box.

My first PC was an Elf and he should have died in the first adventure when some Green Slime landed on him. The GM was rather gracious and treated the slime attack more like a degenerative disease and allowed my PC to continue adventuring as the slime slowly overtook his body. In retrospect a good idea to not kill off a newb's character in the first session, but....

...well I've NEVER liked Green Slime and I've only used it a couple of times as a GM. Both times I telegraphed it's presence big time and the best I did, adversarial-speaking, was get a Magic-User to voluntarily have the Ranger lop off his (MU's) hand at the wrist. That was actually good times as a GM, but the player did that to his own PC....as that interaction was completely avoidable.

All of this is more of a related side-note to a larger issue I've always had with essentially instant-death. Now if a PC jumps off a big-assed cliff unprepared and plummets hundreds of feet to the ground....splat-city and no sweat off my ass. Suck it up and start rolling 3d6.

Right up there is the whole idea of Save vs. Death. Seriously? I've got an AD&D 20th level Magic User and his Save vs. Death is 10......so outside of having a Ring of Protection or some magical aids, he's got a 50/50 shot at surviving. Years of me playing this guy and some event comes down to a single die roll? Sure lots of crap comes down to a single die roll, but usually it's really more like a series of die rolls. A monster has to hit and has to roll high enough to do the PC in, but some random creature has an overpowered effect and your PC just happens to be nearby? Roll that d20 and hope it rolls high.....

OK, clearly something happened in last night's game.....

My group was fighting some plant-based monster and it had a spore attack that was Save vs. Death. Half of the party died, well would have if the GM didn't roll it back. Statistically it should have killed half the party and I don't think he expected that. Now I'll admit I didn't have a huge attachment to this PC, so death was no big deal, and even if I had said attachment......I know I should have taken my own advice and reached for the d6's.

Thing is it's not the PC loss that bugs me, it's the unexpected sudden and seemingly randomness that gets me. I just don't like that at all. 

My thoughts on this aren't just to complain, otherwise this would be just a whiner post.

Harkening back to my earliest experiences, I think that the results of a Save vs. Death shouldn't be just straight up death. At a minimum I'd add in another die roll. If you fail the initial Save, do a 3d6 CON check. If you fail that, then kill off the PC. Otherwise, the PC's hit-point maximum is halved, and increases back to normal at the rate of level per day (i.e. a 6th level Fighter PC currently at 25hp, but has a maximum of 60hp, fails the Save vs. Death, but makes the CON check, his new maximum HP is now 30hp. He still only has 25hp and magical healing will only bring him to 30hp. The next day his maximum will be 36hp, the next day 42hp, etc.) The GM should describe the degradation to the PC appropriately and the nature of the injury should be such that magical aid (specifically healing spells) will not restore the damage, but it will bring the hit points back up to the current maximum. 

My thought is that a Save vs. Death should be serious, but not detrimental to the point that a single die roll will doom the PC. The PC might luck out and make the Save, but if that is failed there is still a chance that the PC takes a serious blow that might very well lead to its death....., but if the PC is careful, the damage can be overcome.

Save or Die - New Episode is Live - NTRPG Recap and Moving On

The latest and greatest episode of Save or Die is up for you to listen to. +James Spahn , +Glen Hallstrom and myself talk about NTRPG Con 2017 from back in June. Yeah, it was a while between episodes. Life doesn't always cooperate as one might like.

I did make things a challenge for Glen as he had to clean up some of my F-Bombs in production. Sorry, Glenn, I'll try harder next time. I will say this. It was probably the most fun I've had recording a podcast. I kid you not. I think we were all hitting out marks and I hope it shows.

Its also the last episode of Save or Die with the three of us as hosts. He are moving on to other projects. If you want to keep in the know, keep an eye out here, at The Tavern and we'll keep you updated. Nothing is until it is and never say never.

I'd like to thank +Vincent Florio and Wild Games Productions for giving us the opportunity to keep y'all entertained and informed. Some of the greatest podcast fans in the world are loyal listeners to Save or Die, Roll for Initiative and THAC0's Hammer. Old School Gaming is where it is at.

Thanks to all of the listeners. You made every minute we spent recording worth it many times over. Hopefully we'll be able to pay you back in the future ;)

Podcast - Save of Die! #134 - All About Elves

You know how I've mentioned that my podcast listening has suffered in retirement. Well, here's the kicker - Episode #134 of Save or Die! released two weeks ago and I haven't mentioned it until now - and I'm a damn host!

Seriously, I need to work on my time management skills. Heh.

DM James, DM Glen, and TM Erik talk about those pointy-eared tree huggers: Elves! The three old grogs talk about how to add a little spice to your immortal spell-slingers and go beyond the traditional Fighter/Magic-User mix-up that are basic race-as-class elves. 

From the alien mindset of elves to their unique take on magic and magic items, James, Glen, and Erik throw ideas at you about how to make your elder woodland folk something original at the gaming table.

Go! Give it a listen. You know you need more of that unmistakeable New York accent. Listen long enough and you'll be able to read The Tavern with my voice in your head. Now THAT'S a scary thought ;)

Save or Die Makes the Geek & Sundry Top Five Expert Level RPG Podcasts

Geek and Sundry (link) put together a Top Five Expert Level RPG Podcast List and Save or Die made the list.

If you have a profound passion to learn and know all the tabletop RPG things, allow me to share with you some of the best audio podcasts I’ve found that I think would be a perfect fit for an official RPG101 course.

Now, mind you, I only heard of one of the four others on the list prior, and although I do listen to podcasts, there is only so much time during the day to listen (and less so since I no longer have a daily commute)

So, what do they say about Save or Die?

The Save or Die! Podcast (SoDcast) launched in 2010, with a focus on classic D&D games “from the first box set of 1974 to the last of the 1990s box sets.” SoDcast has also covered info on other RPGs, such as Swords & Wizardry, The Hero’s Journey, and Labyrinth Lord, to name a few. SoDcast is the podcast you’ll want to listen to if you’re interested in learning everything you can about the history of the Dungeons & Dragons RPG. 

Critical Episode: Save or Die Podcast: Interview With Tracy Hickman 

Some things to note:

- The Critical Episode was hosted by Vince and Crispy

- Classic D&D and the Hero's Journey was the Liz, Mike & Jim era

- Swords & Wizardry can only be my recent ramblings

Which means they took a long and complete look at the Save or Die Podcast, which makes making the Top 5 even that much more striking.

Congrats to all, but especially to Liz, Mike and Jim for holding the torch high for as long as they did.

New Episode of Save or Die: Expert Edition - Adventure 132: Hack & Slash

Banner by +James V West 

It is time for another thrilling episode of Save or Die: Expert Edition.

Yep, Adventure 132: Hack & Slash released earlier today.

The new crew is back for you! In Adventure 132 we’re hacking our way through classic D&D, talking about house rules, rules hacks, and the beautiful elasticity of the game. We give example of common house rules, complete rules overhauls that have their roots in classic D&D, offer advice on making rules modifications at the table to better suit your campaign – something you’re probably already doing without even realizing it! Join DM James, DM Vince, TM Erik, and DM Glen for Save or Die: Expert Rules Adventure 132: “Hack” & Slash!

We had a blast recording this. Hopefully you'll have a blast giving it a listen.

Save or Die! Podcast - Resurrected!

The Save or Die! Podcast is continuing in a slightly new format with new hosts. Its new, official title is Save or Die! Expert Edition in homage to the Expert Boxed Set. The main man behind the wheel is none other than +James Spahn himself.

Now, if James reaches out and asks a favor of you, who among us would say "No!" Not I, as I owe James much over the past few years, so I readily agreed to join James in his newest endeavor. Along with James and I, +Vincent Florio and +Glen Hallstrom also agreed to be part of the newly assembled team. For me, it is almost a homecoming to my first podcasting experience, the Brainstorm Podcast.

Episode Adventure#131 is actually a Swords & Wizardry Light episode. By the way, I am TM Erik - Tavernmaster :)

After hovering on Death’s Door for a few rounds, Save or Die continues! Save or Die: Expert Edition bursts on to the scene with Swords & Wizardry Light – an ultralight folio sized incarnation of the flagship Frog God Games fantasy roleplaying game. Join DM James, DM Vince, TM Erik, and DM Glen as they keep it light, keep it fast, and keep it fun!

So, if you want some behind the scenes info (and some upcoming plans) of Swords & Wizardry Light, here's your chance.

Save Failed! Save or Die! Podcast Loses its Hosts

The Save or Die! Podcast hosts have left the podcast. Liz, Mike and Jim are moving on. To what? No clue. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a new project involving one or more of the team - podcasts rarely die, they just reincarnate as new beasts ;)

So, where does this leave the Save or Die! Podcast? Sadly, the last episode with the current team was a Email Hot Tub episode. Its no secret that I dislike email features of podcasts in general and having a whole episode dedicated to it? Needless to say, I won't be listening to episode 130. I hereby declare that the last Liz, Mike and Jim episode of SoD was episode 129, when they reviewed The Hero's Journey - that way their run truly ends on a high note.

Will Save or Die! continue? I suspect so, but it won't be the same creature. I'm interested to see what Wild Games Productions has in store for the future of SoD. +Vincent Florio , can I request less emails? ;)

Alignment - Is It Better Left Out?

Over my commute the last 2 days I've been listening to the Save or Die podcast wherein they discuss the Basic Fantasy RPG ( +Chris Gonnerman is the special guest.) It's and excellent episode and very informative, but it got me thinking when it was mentioned that there is no alignment system in BFRPG.

Is alignment really needed in an RPG?

How many RPGs that aren't derived or inspired by RPGs have alignment?

Does the removal of an alignment system open up the game to moreor less defined monsters and NPCs?

If 90% of PCs are either Chaotic Selfish (or Chaotic Crazy Homicidal Murder Hobos) and the other 10% are Lawful Rules Lawyers, is the 9 point alignment chart even accurate?

Minis - Do You Use Them?

I've probably asked this before, but I was listening to the latest Save or Die Podcast on my commute to work this morning and the use of miniatures came up.

Back in my early days of gaming, we used minis and dice interchangeably to determine marching order and occasionally the initial set up of an important battle. We never moved them around or plotted points and the like.

When I returned to gaming it was via Fantasy Grounds - a virtual Tabletop. I played in game that used virtual minis or pogs and those without. Those without always seem to be faster paced and there was more Theater of the  Mind going on.

These days, I DM via Roll20, another VTT, and while I use maps and fog of war to show the players where they are, I don't use minis. Slows the game up too much for my taste.

All that being said, I'm waiting on my Reaper's Bones II box of minis to show up at my door. I love minis. I just don't use them with my RPG gaming.

What about you? Do you use them? Why or why not?

We Played Smart, Right Up Until We Didn't

Last night was another session of +Joe D 's Blood Island setting / house rules. It went well, right up until the end of the session.

On the outdoor trek to an "abandoned" tower, we either avoided or out thunk our wandering adversaries, including the well played use of a sleep spell and entanglement. I must say, entanglement is a damn powerful spell outdoors.

It was the door knocker at the tower that took the first and last casualty of the night.

"I raise the door knocker" are famous last words now. Not mine or my character's, but our one and only fighter's.

"It turns into a snake and bites you. Save vs poison or die."

One dead fighter.

There is a reason my magic-user doesn't like to touch too much. Unknown items lead to known death quite often ;)

Save or die is refreshing. All characters are immensely mortal.

Lets see who bites it next week :)

Have You Ever Played Multiple PCs in a RPG Session?

When I first started playing AD&D back in the early 80s, it wasn't uncommon for players to run two PCs apiece, especially if there were only two or three players (besides the DM.)

Heck, it wasn't uncommon for the DM to throw his own PC into the mix, especially in the "shared world" context of "there was no world besides dungeons anyway." DM PCs were handled by the group at large, and never we allowed to search for traps or find secret doors - just too bloody convenient for the DM if they could bypass the traps and find every secret door.

So, when did we turn away from multiple PCs and henchmen (who were always ready to step up as a new PC if their master took a dirt nap?)

You could argue with the power creep to the classes with each edition, there was less and less need for additional characters in the average party, but that doesn't explain why those playing retroclones tend not to play multiple characters and have few if any henchmen and hirelings in their groups.

Another question bouncing around my head thanks to Save or Die Episode 99.

Does "Old School" Mean "Rules Light?"

Obviously, the answer is no. Chivalry & Sorcery, RoleMaster, Bushido and even AD&D are not rules light systems. So, why is it that, in general at least, we think of the OSR as a "rules light movement?

I think the answer to that lies in the ages of those writing the clones and their derivatives. They try to capture (with much success) the feeling and magic of old school gaming while making the rules more digestible and presented in an easier to follow format. The charm of the original rules was not in their presentation, but in the style of play those rules encouraged.

That, and as we get older, KISS (keep it simple, stupid!) makes gaming easier, especially on the aging eyes ;)

AD&D wasn't necessarily as complicated as it now seems in retrospect, but the horrible organization of the rules spread over two books made it difficult to master. Even early editions of Tunnels & Trolls suffer from horrible organization of the rules, making what should be a simple system difficult to learn by the book.

Some thoughts that came to me while listening to the latest Save or Die Podcast (with special guest Jon Peterson)

I Don't Often Post Links to Podcasts, But When I Do - Save or Die - Episode 78 - Eldritch Wizardry (Special Guest - Jon Peterson)

I pretty much listen to RPG podcasts commuting to and from work every day. The latest one I'm listening to is Save or Die Episode 78. The hosts talk about the OD&D supplement Eldritch Wizardry, but it's the insights of Jon Peterson that make this episode worthy of a shout out.

You can't go wrong by giving this episode a listen, and if you are into the history of the beginnings of D&D, you just might learn a thing or two.

Author and game historian Jon Peterson joins the crew once again to discuss the heritage of Original D&D; this time Supplement III: Eldritch Wizardry. They discuss its origins, its impact on both Original and future Dungeons & Dragons, and its usefulness to current fans of Classic D&D today. It might not even be as controversial as the Blackmoor discussions!

Further Thoughts on "Save or Die" (as I Know I've Discussed This Before)

As I mentioned in an earlier post today, last night's "Game That Almost Wasn't and Wasn't Much" had a Save or Die situation pop up.

In case you don't recall, I like the concept of Save or Die, but I generally dislike it's presentation - it sneaks in on folks unannounced, and that just seems wrong to my sensible sensitivities. Last night worked for me.

The character playing the "Rappan Athuk Slots" knew he could come up with a Save or Die result. He knew he was putting himself in that situation. Sure, he had to roll 1-1-1 on 3d6 (which is one chance in 216 or something like that). Again, he knowingly put himself in that situation.

Which is why I really dislike creatures that have death poison that kills instantaneously or the trap without warning that crushes one to death.

For Save or Die there should be an amount of player choice to the situation - I'm willing to gamble my life for a bigger reward. Yes, that can be a trap, but with a cryptic warning that may not easily allow the players to overcome it, but should also be fairly clear what potential failure has.

Now, I know we don't all share the same views on this, and that's okay. It's one of the many reasons I love this hobby. Ask a dozen gamers the same question, and you'll get 11 different yet very valid answers. Oh, and 1 goofball answer, but that's to be expected.

Dying Ain't Much of a Living - A Look at Save or Die in the OSR

"Dying ain't much of a living boy!" - Josey Wales

The quote came to me this morning (excellent movie BTW) and it's fairly applicable to the OSR style of play in general. By that, I mean there is an expectation that PCs may die, especially at earlier levels.
Heck, over the last 2 weeks, I think I have 3 notches on my belt, and I'm not running a DCC RPG game right now either ;)

So, at low levels, PCs get to meet death intimately - but something happens as they survive and level. HPs rise, AC gets better and they are no longer as susceptible to swingy things like damage rolls. Threat of death retrenches.

Solution? Save or Die mechanics, which I'm not enthralled with when they are over used, but they are extremely useful in keep the players and their characters on their toes.

I just don't see the need for save or die at lower levels. A trap with enough potential damage is a similar to a save or die situation without putting the onus on the player failing a roll - it falls instead on the trap itself and the damage in generates.

In general, I like to keep the use of Save or Die at a minimum - enough to keep players on their toes, but not so much they expect every door to try and kill them. It should be in the back of their mind, but not their focus.

How do you use Savor or Die? Do you not use it? Why or why not?