Dragonwars of Trayth, Now With 3d Gaming Boards

Dragonwars of Trayth. Remember it? The classic meltdown that was witnessed here at The Tavern. It seems like it was yesterday.

Well, I gotta give credit where credit is due. They are still working on their epic 25 episode adventure path.

Heck, they even have 3d gaming boards that they'll lug to stores or even cons (more on the cons later)

From their website it looks like the first 6 adventures are written. So, 19 to go?

Screenshot of a sample page of the first adventure in the Adventure Path
I fully expect a threat if I don't take this down immediately

Anyhow, they really love their YouTube videos.

This is the one from May where they show off their handmade gaming boards:

And then here is the one from today, which tells you they will be at GaryCon next year and you can reserve a gaming board for your game:

BTW, it's the exact same video, same music, different subtitles.

I also failed to find the link mentioned to download the digital maps. Of course, that could be my fault.

I find it strange that a 25 part adventure path for Pathfinder (oh, and OSRIC, but they don't seem to be available in OSRIC stats yet) is aiming it's marketing at Gary Con. Adventure paths are generally not what one thinks of when one thinks of old school gaming these days (nor is Pathfinder for that matter) And yes, I do remember Dragonlance. I suspect the folks behind Dragonwars of Trayth remember it too.

After reviewing the Kickstarter in question, they offered the same 6 adventures in the Kickstarter. I guess they were building 3d game boards over the last 20 months.

Anyhow, here's the pitch (note, nothing in this post should be construed as a threat to Epic Quest Publishing's IP, Trademarks, Copyright or any such nonsense. Really. It's a gaming related newsworthy post. So let's just skip the legal threats all together this time around)

I thought Dragonlance... never mind.

Props to the Taverner that brought this to my attention.

Remember the Dragonwars of Trayth Kickstarter "Meltdown" at The Tavern? It's been Released as a Free PDF on RPGNow

My God. I remember the Dragonwars of Trayth Kickstarter fiasco like it was yesterday. Actually, it was October of 2014 but hey, whose counting?

The posts regarding this Kickstarter probably generated more comments than anything else that's been discussed here at The Tavern, and that's not including the comments from one of those involved in the KS that were subsequently deleted (but saved as screenshots for the sake of history and entertainment value).

Here's the original posts:

Kickstarter - Dragonwars of Trayth - Tabletop RPG (Pathfinder / OSRIC) - Revised with new Pics and Awesome Legal Threat!

Wayward Kickstarter - Dragonwars of Trayth - Tabletop RPG (Pathfinder / OSRIC) - Indtroducing The PR Fail

Tales from the Backwater Tavern

Closing the Door on Dragonwars of Trayth Kickstarter - Restoring the Deleted Comments

So, here we are and the first installment of a 25 piece epic series known as Dragonwars of Trayth (yes, 25 parts) is available as a free download on RPGnow. Oh, and a free character sheet download (ignore the misspelling in the file name, "character" is spelled correctly on the actual sheet. DO NOT print out all four pages, the first two are simply ads and color ink killers)

Did I mention you can get the character sheets in Pathfinder and OSRIC flavors but the module is only available for Pathfinder thus far.

You know you want to. I WANT TO. And I shall. It is, sadly, pushing away other titles from the top of the review pile (Ed Greenwood's the Terrible Revenge of Simpering Malexineuss the Pretender may still go first)

Remember, the download is free and your time is precious.

Closing the Door on Dragonwars of Trayth Kickstarter - Restoring the Deleted Comments

I do believe I captured everything that was deleted from the conversation with our good friends over at Dragonwars of Trayth, as well as some G+ highlights that will probably be deleted.

At least now, with some effort, one can follow the weekend festivities. Many folks suggested popcorn to enjoy with your reading but I suggest beer. Perhaps both might be in order.

If I missed something, let me know and I'll take a second look to find it.

Alright, that's a wrap!

Dragonswars of Trayth - Answering the Dragon's Parting Whine

Even while shutting down their Dragonwars of Trayth Kickstarter, the fine folks of Epic Quest Publishing took some parting blows, not just at me but members of this community. I feel it is only right to address their, as of now, final comment on the Dragonwars of Trayth Kickstarter. Below is the comment in question, provided to facilitate my response.

Now, I will address each piece as best I can:

Some people who claim to BACK a project have clearly shown the integrity , or lack thereof, of their character.

This is addressed to two of members of the community who decided to engage Epic Quest Publishing AFTER EQP removed their comments from The Tavern's blog posts.

When social media opinions from people who do not create (or if they do and are criticized they start a smear campaign) rules the day instead of truth then there is no point in offering anything truly creative.

Yes, these seems addressed to me and my little backwater blog.

Let's see, do I create? I mean, besides the blog, two podcasts, a handful of products on RPGNow, organizing the Tenkar's Landing Crowdsourced Sandbox Project - nope, I guess I don't meet their high standards.

I'd like to know what smear campaign I started AFTER being criticized. I thought the issue was my opinion of their Kickstarter that was the post that set this off. Or are they referring to my response to their threat of a lawsuit for my use of screenshots of their project that would have been covered under Fair Use. I thought the images I used to replace said pieces of art were appropriate at this point in the ongoing back and forth.

We had a private backer offer over 1 million to buy a museum, we said no, lets first see if anyone is interested else its a empty shell.

Alright. Forgive me for saying this so bluntly, but you are so full of shit I'm surprised you haven't choked to death. 19 backers after 3 weeks of the Kickstarter going live shows a very empty shell. If you turned down a million bucks for a gaming museum and let it walk away... fuck it, I can't find the right term for such stupidity. I'll leave it as bullshit.

Well thanks to those who would rather tear down things with uninformed and inaccurate comments elsewhere there will be no museum.

Stop with the whiny bullshit already. You either have a million dollar backer or you don't. You Kickstarter failure FOR A SECOND TIME has nothing to do with your fictitious museum. Your failure to fund a $8,000 Kickstarter lost you a million bucks? Anyone want to buy a bridge?

It was tried by others before us with the same result.

Huh? Are you funding an RPG product or a museum?

The gaming community has moved on and become something unrecognizable online.

I think this deserves a post of it's own. It has moved on, and grown and embraced the internet.

RPG is about getting together with others to play, have fun, and working together to achieve a common goal.

No argument.

When others are selfish in their own agendas or jealous of new ideas to the point they say they back a project that they dont well then kickstarter has lost its purpose.

Aimed at the two I mentioned above. Can I ask what new ideas are being referred to, as I know non-OGL monsters were used in the offered sample, so they certainly weren't new.

To back a project is to back an idea, NOT a finished polished product.

No, to back a project is in the hope of getting a finished, polished product. And yes, your maps sucked. Really sucked. Are you now saying what you showed was not what the finished product was to look like?

But there are those who would rather make a name for themselves than help bring entertainment to others or who think tearing up someones idea is socially acceptable.

Its called criticism. Come out from your basements and face the world.

Thus they deserve the world they have created by and through their actions.

Again, step out into the sunlight. You may find it a rewarding experience.

Im sure they will count this as some major victory and get all the social feedback they can for their ego's but it is truly a loss to the gaming community and speaks volumes about the society they have created.

The failure of this project, that was destined to fail without the help of any outside sources (Kicktraq estimated it would end with about 5K if I recall correctly, well short of the 8k needed for success), speaks volumes of the quality of said project.

Some advice. If your project fails twice, maybe you need to find a different project, as this one just isn't going to work. 19 backers after 3 weeks showed a particular lack of interest, no matter the monies raised. You had more modules planned (25) than actual backers. That is something you really need to look at once the shock and anger wears off. Because when you think about it, the community delivered the message you didn't want to hear.

Don't be angry at the messengers. Think about the message instead.

Wayward Kickstarter - Dragonwars of Trayth - Tabletop RPG (Pathfinder / OSRIC) - Indtroducing The PR Fail

Sometimes folks are their own worst enemies. Take, for example, the person(s) behind Dragonwars of Trayth. There is a saying that all publicity, even bad publicity, is good publicity. In this case, yesterday's post highlighting some of the Dragonwars of Trayth's Kickstarter put some actual eyes on it. At least two dozens sets of eyes.

Does it really matter? No, it's going to be a failed Kickstarter like it's elder doppleganger. Their first attempt to fund Dragonwars of Trayth was canceled when it was obvious it wouldn't fund. So, they responded quickly with a second attempt and a more modest goal. The result?

19 backers. Over what, 3 weeks. Not even a backer a day. So yes, I understand their frustration. They have a vision that's better than chocolate and peanut butter and instead they are to be left holding nothing for a second time.

Why is that?

The art from the project looks fine. The maps, especially the outdoor maps, I compared to MS-DOS are from those old RPGs in the early 90's, but I fear I insulted those classic RPGs.

So, since I dissed their mapping, what response do I get?

Yeah, Dragonwars of Trayth excels in the Public Relations department.

Oh, and of course, nonsense on the blogside too:

Here is my informed suggestion to the fine folks at Dragonwars of Trayth - Wait an extra 24 hours, at least, before responding to criticism. I am obviously NOT the only one that found issues with your project, as 19 supporters over the course of 3 weeks can easily attest to.

Nearly all the money I've raised on this blog has gone back to the blog, either via contests or giveaways. It is not a money maker.

As for evaluating, highlighting and criticizing Kickstarters, it's one of the things I do here at The Tavern.

You'll need to grow a thicker skin for your third attempt, because next time around, you'll have more eyes on you than just mine (and the handful of folks that pointed out your Kickstarter for me.)

Kickstarter - Dragonwars of Trayth - Tabletop RPG (Pathfinder / OSRIC) - Revised with new Pics and Awesome Legal Threat!

It is hard to review a Kickstarter based on initial impressions, but we all do it. Kickstarters succeed or fail based upon their hook, and Dragonwars of Trayth - Tabletop RPG is no exception.

The latest hook is available here, at http://www.dragonwarsoftrayth.com/gauntlet%20osric.pdf

It's a single encounter of a larger adventure. There is some kind of
contest where, if you run the encounter with your gaming group and submit a video recording, you would be entered to win the first six adventures in the series in print. That is, assuming the Kickstarter even succeeds, which is far from a given at this point. You have until the 17th of October to submit your entry.

If this encounter is the best example they have to show, it's a very sad thing. Sure, its a death trap, but not a very exciting one. The way it is set up pretty much requires the use of a battle map. Now, not that I have ever played Lazer Tag, but it was pointed out to me that the map is very reminiscent of a Lazer Tag Arena.

The maps, by the way, are reminiscent of old MS-DOS RPG games and the maps and graphics you would encounter. This isnt a good thing. I can't sample how bad the world maps look, as they are only shown in the video, but you can see a sample of a dungeon map below (yes, this is a matter of taste - some may love the retroDOS look of the maps - I see it as an eyesore, especially when compared to the amount and relative quality of the art.)


Oh, before I forget - needless add ons. T-shirts, lanyards, water bottles, mugs - even messenger bags.
These have fucked up far more Kickstarter projects than they have ever helped. Not a good sign that they are so prominent.

I should also point out that, at least as far as I can tell, Dragonwars of Trayth - Tabletop RPG is NOT an actual RPG, but a setting and series of adventures. It is not a self contained ruleset and you'll need either Pathfinder or OSRIC (or some other OSR / D&D clone ruleset) to use it.



edit: I've been blogging for over 5 years and NO ONE even threatened me with a lawsuit (although a few might have offered to meet me in a dark alley.)

here it is folks - the first, the only, threatening to sue you for things I can't but fuck it, let me send it as a private message on G+ anyway:

well, I've saved this little ditty too :)