So, Justin LaNassa, the main individual apparently behind the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum and the one attempting to license the iconic TSR trademark images to third parties, has had some choice words to say about my prior observations and speculations over on Facebook:
As such, I am leaving the observations, speculation, and comments for the pricing scheme of the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum to my readers. I will, however, share screenshots of said pricing schemes for your convenience.
Admission & Membership:
Pay-to-Play Game Table Pricing:
Remember, I am just delivering pure facts here. Your comments are appreciated as always :) Tenkar
can some one clear this upReplyDelete
You pay this person to enter the museum? you pay to play games with "ranked" DM's? this real or am I misunderstanding the business model.
You have correctly interpreted the images in question. I will not comment on the business model at this time.Delete
Well, at least he's not too money hungry. ROFLMAOReplyDelete
These prices are for special events not every game or travelers that make it here and want to run a game in a legendary location for next to nothing.if tenkar or any one-else here had a clue on how much people pay to rent 330 center street or horticultural hull. But sure this isn’t for some so we will have live stream playability for a few players cheap virtual seating.and we also plan on holdIng mini cons thru out the year.Delete
Quite striking isn't it? $1000 to play with a well known personality DM. For how long? Can you imagine the uproar at a tpk in room 3?ReplyDelete
Make sure if playing in a Tim Kask game that TPKs are offered a refund ;)Delete
If I'm paying $1000 per session I'm praying for a TPK at the end.Delete
Alright, looking at all of this the thing that strikes me the most is that the number of gamers out there likely to pay $750-$1000 a head to play in a game is a VERY limited group. With many of the people that I would figure would fall into those rarified DM spots also running games at Gary Con, GameHole, North Texas RPG, and the like, I just don't see people paying that much.ReplyDelete
Now, one of the old guard potentially making $1,500 for running a single game ($750 level pays 20%) - if the money is there I am all for it. Let's face it, the people who pioneered RPGs are not "living large", and certainly are deserving of more than they have received for their contributions.
But again, how many games of that sort are going to be run?
Tougher still? $50 a person for a "common" DM? I know that there are "professional" DMs out there, but I don't know as any of them charge that much and, if they are charging, I'd hope for more than a common experience.
Face it, any business that is trying to charge more than the market will bear is going to end up changing their prices. If nobody is going to pay $50/head to game, but tables can be filled at $100/game? That is what will happen down the road. If the tables *DO* fill at $50/head? More power to them.
Overall, I'm torn. The perceived belligerency of Mr. LaNasa's comment above sends up red flags for me - where his proposed price list doesn't. I'm hoping that this doesn't blow up into something like Dragon Lords of Trayeth. I'd like to see this succeed, I'd like to see money going into the pockets of the Old Guard, and I'd like to think that this could all work.
Like I said, the comment above has me concerned for the future of this project - but I really hope it can succeed despite that.
Note that the per head costs are what the player pays. The DM gets 10% (so $5/head at the lowest tier), which increases to 15% or more (the "commission") at the higher end. The professional GM is thus taking in a lot less than the venue. Me, I might consider $5 or $10 for a game. Perhaps even $20 were it in a venue instead of a private home (rent and utilities do exist). $50+, nope. To each their own however.Delete
There has been a good conversation about this in recent weeks on the Gaming and BS podcast and associated forum posts. If memory serves, a person that contacted them charges, I believe it was $30 a head, and it was all VTT/ heavy automated (don't have to learn rules, maps are predone, special effects, etc.) Just one example. (And that guy got all the money, not 5%)Delete
You can debate the cost of gaming there all day. How many people would pay that amount - or much more to have dinner with a famous actor? A high level politician? A night at a nudie bar? (Not joking) To back my point - Check how many people pay large amounts for OSR first prints!! Go to Ebay and check out costs for Woodgrain Box Sets or even White Box sets!! In my own personal opinion quite a few people would gladly pay that amount to game with Original Legends of gaming. Play MA with Jim Ward?? Run in a Dungeon with Ernie Gygax? FITS with Mike Carr? Heck, lets play!! Lastly, simply call the charge a "donation" to the museum and player can easily write it off.ReplyDelete
I don't believe the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum is a Not-For-Profit museum. Such status is not indicated anywhere on the website, nor is the admission fee referred to as a donation.Delete
Very good idea and anyone can pay money to game where every and they do ( DMS get no pay Or Crap perks at conventions) it is the experience of gaming in the original TSR dungeon hobby shop location only one in the whole world !!Delete
Very good idea,Anyone can pay money to game anywhere and everyone does to some extent.The whole purpose here is to allow DMS to make money for their skills.Conventions pay nothing and at most gives out free rooms an snacks. We are different and secondly we are the original TSR dungeon hobby shop location The only one in the whole world. To game in Gary’s very office is a bucket list item to some. But if you can’t afford it like old Tenkar you might want to befriend a old TSR employee so you can game free !Delete
I just had the Tenkar edit my response what a joke he is. I said if you can’t afford gaming at the DHS like Tenkar obviously can’t . You might want to make a TSR employee as friend to get you into the game for free!!Delete
I can't edit your replies, just approve them or disapprove. I've approved each comment you've made thus far. Blogger is the interface used here and it does not allow the editing of comments.Delete
This is a really pathetic attempt to discredit me.
Obviously you take criticism of your business plan personally, which is a really strange way to run a professional business. I haven't made any personal insults in your direction, not have I edited any of your words. Sadly, the same can not be said of you.
So, is the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum a not-for-profit? Folks want to know.
As a side note, if you truly had posted such I would have approved t, as it shows the kind of businessman you are. But hey, I did approve it when you actually said it. Go figure. You do a fine job if digging your own hole Justin.Delete
It’s ok Tenkar keep throwing stones. It really shows how jealous you really are it’s ok keep it up very becoming of you. Do you know how many people can’t stand to listen to you anymore.Your ship is sinking and I understand now it’s you screaming for help.Delete
I think that my earlier response here shows that your endeavor is something that I wish to see succeed. With that said, your hostility here is not something that will serve you well. You've been attacking Tenkar, claiming he is editing your replies (he can't), talking about his "jealousy", and have essentially done nothing but attack his character while giving the community as a whole nothing with which to judge yours - other than your behavior here and on facebook.
This is doing you no favors.
While you may think that Tenkar's Tavern is unworthy of questioning you, or that his "ship is sinking" I'll put forth that the reverse is true. Tenkar's Tavern is a place where a large swath of the gaming community, especially followers of the OSR movement, come for news. Yes, there are other outlets as well (such as Dragonfoot), but I'd say that this is akin to telling CBS that they aren't relevant while not actually releasing information via other outlets like ABC or NBC (I don't know as the community has any outlet large enough that I'd compare it to CNN or the like - just me being fair).
If you closely examine the history of Tenkar's Tavern, you will notice a past trend, one that you really don't wish to become a part of. Historically speaking, most of the people that start ranting at Tenkar are charlatans and con men. People like Ken Whitman or the idiot behind Dragonlords of Trayeth.
You do not want to be among their number. I understand that being questioned in a public forum may be frustrating. I get that having potential shortcomings in your licensing plan could be embarrassing and set you on the defensive. I understand all these things, and more.
I *want* to see you succeed. Right now, you sir are your own biggest obstacle. I'd recommend that you step back, calm down, apologize and speak to your potential client-base with something akin to humility and respect. Gamers are already quick enough to eat our own...riling up the people you hope to have attending the museum is a flat out bad plan.
I hope you take this in the spirit it is intended because you ARE being judged by your actions here - and right now, you could use a change in how you are being perceived.
". . . the original TSR dungeon hobby shop location only one in the whole world !!"Delete
Yean, we get it. George Washington slept there, so . . . LOL
That price list is hilarious. Detached from reality and hilarious.ReplyDelete
The going rate for a paid DM on Roll20 is about $5 per hour. The DHSM says their hours are mostly 6PM to 11 PM or five hours a night. So I'm guessing they charge about $10/hour per person for a "common" DM. The problem is that you probably cannot pick your fellow party members. So you might have a great DM but a bunch of edgelords as party members. So you can play in three Roll20 campaigns per week for the price of one campaign at DHSMReplyDelete
Our FLGS runs its AL night from 6PM to 10PM and it's free. The GM skills vary of course.
Tbh i’ve thought for a while a standing museum to the hobby, especially there in Lake Geneva, would be a great thing. Something beyond the intermittent cons. Not sure this is quite what i had in mind tho.ReplyDelete
I did send a PM to Jayson questioning the soundness of the business model with all of the concerns many of you have listed above. His response to me was that there were too many people involved for this to fail. My response was that I wished him the best of luck in his endeavor and that I hope I would be proven wrong. 😊ReplyDelete
Sounds a bit close to "too big to fail."Delete
I am averse to this whole trend. RPGing is meant to be recreational - friends gathering to exercise the free power of imagination. Trying to monetize it by branding certain DMs as a 'superior class' is crass, demeaning and contrary to the basis of the hobby.ReplyDelete
I admit that was my knee-jerk reaction. I mean, I run games for free after all, and have done so for more decades than I'd like to admit. But, when I really started thinking about it? I've payed to play for years via conventions. I was paid by Gen Con the first year I ran at the MECCA convention center, $1 per player... That didn't make me a "professional", but I've been paid in free badges and the like as well, even last year (not a whole lot of in person gaming this year).Delete
I finally came around to not begrudging folks for making a little income doing something they enjoy. DM'ing is certainly performance, and I *have* made my living that way...so when I wrapped my head around that, I found peace with the concept. It isn't something that I think is for me beyond whatever a convention charges these days, but heck, Gen Con allows for people to increase event ticket prices for a game as well. DM for hire isn't wholly new, it isn't going away, it just isn't for everyone...perhaps really only being for a small subset of the hobby.
per the web site their selling gift cards in advance of the opening, a way to get some pocket money. There is also a claim of them selling memberships and buying early seems to imply some advantages also. The claim is they sold double digit memberships already.Delete
Did somebody give their 8 year old child some money to start a "business"?ReplyDelete
Who the heck is this guy, and why would anyone want to give him money? I'd pay to play with one of the original TSR designers at a convention, but that's about it. I've seen a lot of names in print since I discovered D&D in the 70s, but this is the first time I've seen his.ReplyDelete