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Showing posts with label alignment. Show all posts
Showing posts with label alignment. Show all posts

Sunday, August 29, 2021

Some Thoughts on Alignment in RPGs

Some Thoughts on Alignment in RPGs
(Special Note: I'm going to assume that my ramblings will come off as a product pitch, at least to someone, but said product is a PWYW item at DTRPG, so if you're interested just get it for free and we'll be good.)

Lately I've been thinking about the concept of alignment in RPGs, and my opinion is quickly coming to the conclusion that the concept generally sucks. Nothing is going to truly work because it is not just an abstraction, but an abstraction that doesn't necessarily fit in well with not just other abstractions, but also the motivations (and mechanizations) of the players sitting around the table.

In general.....I don't think alignment matters too much to the average player or PC, and the more generic things are, the easier it is to incorporate, which is just common sense. The gambit of RPG alignment systems run from the simple duality of Law vs. Chaos to the more complex nine-position matrix of Law/Chaos and Goodness/Neutrality/Evil. In a lot of games, at least from my experience, a PC's alignment doesn't matter much unless you happen to find an intelligent weapon of opposing alignment or you want to play a Paladin, or the like.

I have also played (I know, bear with me) games of HackMaster where alignment needed to be "accurately" played or there would be penalties. In HackMaster 4th edition there was a huge, rather crunchy, chart of actions and bonuses/penalties (experience IIRC) based on alignments. In the games I participated in (played, ran, watched) that chart did help bring alignment as a driving force for some in-game actions. Problem was that these "actions" tended to just become Standard Operating Procedures for HackMaster PCs.

Now the newer version of HackMaster is a little simpler, and honestly I dig it.....but clearly I'm biased. As part of the Honor mechanic the GM gets to essentially rate the PC's adherence to alignment, without specifically listing actions that reinforce alignments. It's a judgement call from the GM, which might be an issue in and of itself.

My biggest problem with alignment is that just about ANY system is inherently flawed because I think the primary axis of alignment is one of order/selflessness and chaos/selfishness, and while you could argue that some "chaotic or evil" PCs only align with a party to further their own agenda, I also think that's pretty much bullshit. The simple fact that in-game we assemble as a group to "adventure" or "murderhobo" tends to skew everything towards the order/law/selflessness side of things.

"Well what about orcs? They're chaotic but they still organize...are you saying they are now lawful or selfless?"

Yes. In BX they are Chaotic and in later editions Lawful Evil, so that fits. I wouldn't really think of orcs as selfless, but in order to have any type of society there has to be a level of order & selflessness.

No, the real problem with alignments, as I see it, is that we naturally conclude that we are able to deduce a PC's alignments from the actions of said PCs, which is a judgement call to begin with, when really the alignment should be a motivation for actions, which is not only another judgment call, but an internalized one (to the player). So what we end up with is one judgment call on top of another. That is the recipe for problems. I really don't want to have to have a motivations discussion at the table.

I don't expect you readers to remember, but there was this time a while back where my Lawful Magic-User cold-cocked one of the party thieves in the face and almost killed him. On the surface it could easily have been seen as a Chaotic/Evil/Selfish act. I'd argue it was the exact opposite as it not only seemed like a logical thing to do, if unexpected...but the unexpectedness was an important factor, but actually a Good act and definitely Selfless since the penalty for failure could well have been my PCs death. The thing is I sure AF didn't want to have a long debate at the game table about motivations, so I posted about it here instead....

So wtf do we do about alignments?

From a role-playing perspective I do think there is a place for alignments and I think it is important, but how important....that is open for debate. You'd think that for PCs like Paladins alignment is über-important, but I'm starting to be of the opinion of not really. I still think Paladins should be "good" but what really matters is how they adhere to their deity's desires & spheres of influence.

As a (well, it has been a while) GM I just don't get too worked up about PC's alignments. One thing I do not do is make a player decide their PCs alignment for at least their 1st level. Let them play the PC for a level and then see what fits based on how they internalized that PC's. Now if the character's class requires a specific alignment I'll give the player a bit of a pass for the first level and guide a bit here & there as to my interpretation of their interpretation, based on the PCs actions.

I'm also going to assume that all PCs are generally good-lawful aligned and that chaotic or evil PCs are "relatively" chaotic or evil. Instead of a hard and fast interpretation to some moral absolutes, it's a relative position to a societal norm. Hell, if you came from a society where back-stabbing and buddy-fucking to get ahead was the expected norm and you were selfless and caring, wouldn't any "good" actions be relatively "evil"? Just a thought to stick with you there.....

Now personally, when I play NPCs as a GM I use a d30 Personality Generator that I created. I don't really have to think too hard about it, just try to use these personality traits as the motivating factors on how to run the NPC. I haven't tried to use this for running my PC...yet.

My d30 table is really just a partial answer, for me at least, to the underlying alignment problem. I think that the real answer is largely dropping alignment altogether. Keep it as a thing, I guess, but deemphasize it to something that only matters to the player. For those things that matter, like the Paladin, make it applicable to adherence to societal norms or specific behaviors, like a defined code. Drop the judgement call on top of judgement call and reduce it to a selection of desired actions, not too unlike how HackMaster 4th edition did things.....but only for these rare PCs. I don't find it terrible, or even unexpected, if a Paladin follows some specific role-playing guidance to the point where it seems more like a SOP.

The only other alignment-based consideration I can think of is the aligned intelligent weapons, or loot that changes alignment. In those cases, just assign some of the aforementioned personality traits. Instead of (assuming your RPG system makes this a thing) having a diametrically opposed alignment weapon do damage when held, have it strike out against the wielder the first time the PC wielding/carrying it performs an action opposed to its personality.  A "Lawful Good" PC wielding a "Friendly, Witty & Cerebral" Longsword says something crude, mean, and low-brow to someone else....oh yeah, he's getting a smack from that sword, or a magical shock for 1d6...something to show displeasure.

Just my 2 cp.

Wednesday, April 27, 2016

Alignment Shirts at Woot! (one day only)


If you don't know about Woot.com, it's a site that rotates in daily sales. They are also geeks and gamers, and today's shirt selection is a Dungeon & Dragons alignment collection.

Shirt Neutrality Shirtstorm
There are three types of people in this world. Well, three types of people, and then some subtypes of people. And sometimes some people might change, and other people might also become a bit different, and other people might stay the same overall. Anyway. Hope this was helpful.

Here's the link to the shirts. Prices aren't bad at all.

Thursday, May 21, 2015

How Big a Role Does Alignment Play in Your Campaign? Is it Even Needed?

Assuming your system of choice includes alignment in anywhere from three to nine flavors, how big a role does alignment play in your campaign?

Back in my High School years, I used to plot that out on a grid for each PC, much like the DMG suggested. What a fucking waste of time. With the exception of any Paladins in the party, the average PC could at best be defined as Chaotic Selfish. Paladins were Lawful Stupid, Deaf and Blind.

These days I mostly hand wave it "So, you take the Orc hostage, put him tied up in a mining cart, pour oil on him, light him and send him screaming and flaming down the tracks? Neutral Good you say you are? You gave him a choice: talk and live or stay silent and burn and the choice was his? This would have been fair game on 24 with Jack Baur? Sigh. Lets move on to the mobile flaming orc."

Do we need alignment? Is good and evil a matter of perspective? Should alignment be kept but redefined?

Wednesday, October 16, 2013

Do You Use "Alignment Languages" in Your Campaigns?

One of the least understood aspects of AD&D in my days of youthful gaming (somewhere after Weapon Speed) was Alignment Languages or Alignment Tongues.

Were they actually different languages or more like regional variations of the common tongue?

Could characters discuss tactics in the middle of battle using their alignment tongue and keep the enemy from ever figuring it out?

We quietly handwaved it away and ignored it after a while - it just seemed like so much useless baggage.

Do you use Alignment Tongues in your campaigns? If so, how do you use it?

What is any houserules do you have for it?

If you used it in the past and no longer do, why is that?

Thursday, March 14, 2013

Looking at the 1E Alignments Definitions From the Books - Part 1 - Chaotic Good

It's a shame that even the AD&D rulebooks can't agree on the alignment definitions (another shout out to the Roll For Initiative podcast for reminding me of this fact). I remember being briefly irked by it back in my High School years, but then we kinda glossed over alignment afterwards. Except for certain weirdness, and example of which I talk about below.

Tonight, I'm going to take a short look at Chaotic Good as defined in the Player's Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide.
PH - CHAOTIC GOOD: While creatures of this alignment view freedom and the randomness (why the hell would randomness be valued?) of action as ultimate truths, they likewise place value on life and the welfare of each individual. Respect for individualism is also great. By promoting the gods of chaotic good, characters of this alignment seek to spread their values throughout the world. 
DMG - CHAOTIC GOOD: To the chaotic good individual, freedom and independence are as important to life and happiness (this sentence is missing something). The ethos views this freedom as the only means by which each creature con achieve true satisfaction and happiness. Law, order, social forms, and anything else which tends to restrict or abridge individual freedom is wrong, and each individual is capable of achieving self-realization and prosperity through himself, herself, or itself (notice the randomness aspect is missing?).
The DMG version of Chaotic Good makes more sense, which makes sense, as it's the later version of the definition (PH was released in 78 and the DMG in 79) that was published.

I do remember as a teenager thinking that Chaotic Good characters had to roll randomly to decide certain actions - they couldn't pick a direction at a "T" interestion in a dungeon, they had to roll. Now I know where we got this rule - the damn Player's Handbook itself and teenage interpretations ;)

"By promoting the gods of chaotic good, characters of this alignment seek to spread their values throughout the world." Couldn't this be said about nearly every alignment?

I remember back in my teen years that only Dungeon Masters were supposed to own and read the DMG and various MMs. Was it really fair to have a different definition for the alignments on the Player's side and the DM's side?

Lets play a game and help complete the definition of Chaotic Good after 33 years:
To the chaotic good individual, freedom and independence are as important to life and happiness AS: ___________
- a warm puppy
- crushing your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
- add some random answers in the comments section ;)
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