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Showing posts with label ODnD. Show all posts
Showing posts with label ODnD. Show all posts

Wednesday, November 20, 2024

Limited Time Sale - Dungeons & Dragons - the Making of Original D&D: 1970-1977 (50% off)

Yep, Dungeons & Dragons - the Making of Original D&D: 1970-1977 is currently 50% off at Amazon (Limited Time Sale - ticker on the page) with "potentially" an additional 10% off coupon. If they properly stack, the price would be down to 45 bucks. Note: Some folks do not see the coupon - its a good price either way.

Ignore the preface and enjoy the contents, at least at this price :)

The holiday season is sneaking up...


Unearth the very first draft of original D&D, never released to the public until now. Crafted on Gygax’s home typewriter, this 1973 document contains handwritten notes by both Gygax and Arneson.

Discover approximately 30 early articles and rare documents that lay the foundation for modern D&D, including unpublished correspondence between Gygax and Arneson.

Peruse a remarkable collection of magazine and fanzine articles, many of which are no longer publicly available or remain undiscovered by D&D historians and fans of classic D&D.

Flip through facsimiles of all the first printings of Original D&D, compiled in a single book for the first time in D&D’s publishing history.

Explore the creation and development of the original 1974 game with insightful commentary by Jon Peterson, one of D&D’s foremost historians.

Commemorate our 50th anniversary with this homage to D&D's past. We invite you to look back on D&D’s history with a discerning eye as we celebrate how far D&D has come. Here’s to 50 years, and 50 more!

The Tavern is supported by readers like you. The easiest way to support The Tavern is to shop via our affiliate links. The Tavern DOES NOT do "Paid For" Articles and discloses personal connections to products and creators written about when applicable.

DTRPGAmazon, and Humble Bundle are affiliate programs that support The Tavern.  You can catch the daily Tavern Chat cast on Rumble or YouTube - Tenkar

Sunday, June 24, 2018

The Tavern Chat Podcast - Episode #39 - OD&D: Stop! Don't Let the Players Roll D' Dice


I've owned my copy of the OD&D White Box (OCE) for at least 15 years. I probably pull it off the shelf to read it at least once a year. Somehow I missed the follow following each time:


Go figure.
Tip of the hat to The Tavern's Discord Community for inadvertently giving me today's topic of discussion. Player's don't even roll their characters in OD&D - the DM does.
Thank you Elfstar.

Link to Episode #39https://anchor.fm/tavernchat/episodes/Episode-39---ODD-Stop--Dont-Let-the-Players-Roll-D-Dice-e1n202

Link to The Tavern's Discord Communityhttps://discord.gg/fReGmuD

Tuesday, December 20, 2016

OSR Christmas - Day Eight - OD&D Dungeons & Dragons Original Edition (White Box) - PDF Only



Its Day Eight of OSR Christmas. Before we get to today's festivities, let's find out who is the recipient of yesterday's awesome gift who ARE the recipients of yesterday's recent GIFTS, as +Jason Paul McCartan offered to make one gift into three!

I would do a drum roll but that doesn't work so well on a blog post. Oh well.
Bob Brinkman, dogrodeo and Dave Bendit - congrats. Email me at tenkarsDOTtavern and we'll get you hooked up.

Now for today's gift. We are giving away the OD&D Dungeons & Dragons Original Edition (White Box) in PDF only. The granddaddy that started it all. Sure, the reprint covers look like shit (IMHO) but the rules are what they are and that makes this nearly priceless, especially for those that don't have this in print (and who wants to spend over $22k for a wood grained box anyway?)
First published in January 1974, the original edition rules of Dungeons & Dragons would go on to see six different printings. This edition is for the Original Collector's Edition released By Wizards of the Coast in 2013, which was itself a revision of the 6th and final printing, the "Original Collector’s Edition" or white box edition.  
You get all three books contained in the original boxed set: Men & Magic, Monsters & Treasure, and Underworld & Wilderness Adventures plus the Reference Sheets booklet. 
Great to read and still great to play, the original edition shows you where the roleplaying hobby began and the original version of the game that spawned a hobby and so much more.
Comment on this post before 8 AM Eastern Time, December 21st, 2016 to be in the running for $9.99 in an RPGNow Gift CardOD&D Dungeons & Dragons Original Edition in Print + PDF is exactly $9.99 or use it for other purchases at RPGNow. The choice will be yours - if Santa picks you :)

This prize is available because of readers like you. Your use of The Tavern's affiliate links allows for giveaways like this.


More OSR Christmas

+James Spahn is giving away 12 prizes over 12 days and all you need to do is comment on one blog post. You will need to follow the instructions carefully if you want a chance to be gifted.

Note: You MUST comment on the Halfling's Luck blog. This post it just to let you know where to go.


Saturday, February 27, 2016

OD&D Supplement IV: Gods, Demi-gods & Heroes - $4.99 in PDF



and now the circle is complete.

white box and tan covers.

three plus four ends the tour.


Yeah, my poetry sucks. Thank the gods no one comes to The Tavern to read my poetry.

OD&D Supplement IV: Gods, Demi-gods & Heroes (0e) is available in PDF for $4.99 at RPGNow. Sure, you can snag a poor quality scan off of a torrent or two (as has been mentioned ad nauseam by the same commenter) or you can grab a legit and cleaned up scan from RPGNow for about the cost of a large / grande / tall / wtf they call a large coffee at Starbucks these days. Wait, they may add in a stale cookie for that price.

Note: the Melnibonean and Hyborian mythos have been removed due to copyright issues.

Friday, February 19, 2016

OD&D Supplement III: Eldritch Wizardry (0e) Now Available in PDF for $4.99


Gone is the naked lady tied to a sacrificial altar. Is nothing sacred? ;)

5 bucks for Eldritch Wizardry is a damn good deal, even with the replacement cover.

Of course, I have my copy in print, with naked lady. heh


Wednesday, February 10, 2016

OD&D Supplement II: Blackmoor (0e) in PDF for 5 Bucks on RPGNow


OD&D Supplement II: Blackmoor (0e) is a mere 5 bucks in PDF on RPGNow. If you've ever wanted to see where the hobby had it's beginnings, you've never had a better chance than now.

I may pick this up just to save wear and tear on my dead tree copy...

Friday, February 5, 2016

OD&D Supplement I: Greyhawk $4.99 in PDF

Sure, the new cover art sucks but that's not the point


Color me surprised.

Quickly on the heels of the Original Dungeons & Dragons Boxed set releasing in PDF we now have Supplement I: Greyhawk in PDF for $4.99

What's next? Gamma World 1e?

Wait, that would be pretty cool...

Wednesday, January 27, 2016

OD&D OCE "Boxed Set" Returns to RPGNow in PDF for 10 Bucks

Before the great purge, when WotC removed their PDFs from the OneBookShelf / RPGNow sales platform, one of my purchases was the Original Dungeons & Dragons OCE Boxed Set in PDF. It was handy, even if it wasn't the cleanest copy. After the purge I wan't even able to redownload a copy if I wanted to.

OD&D is back at RPGNow. I have access to the files again and it's very clean, but that makes senses, as they are using the reprint files for their source materials.

$9.99 get's you the contents of the Original Dungeons & Dragons boxed set, as presented in the reprint WotC did 2 years ago. The booklets have the new covers, not the originals (sadly) but the contents are there.

If you are looking for an inexpensive copy of the Original D&D rules, this is an excellent way to get your hands on them.




Wednesday, February 5, 2014

LBBs - Original & Reprint - Men & Magic - Side by side


The reprint is slightly wider than the original (I'm guessing 3/4 of an inch), but the height is the same. The white color of the reprint is going to get dirty fast if it's put into regular play. And I still don't like the new covers.

Oh, and nothing beats the feel of the old covers.


The reprint is however, easier on the eyes. Where there were editing changes in the original and therefore bold print, the reprint fixes that. Oh, and Minotaurs are now underlined as they should be.

The reprint is more readable and easier on the eyes than the original, as it is all laid out new. Even a grumpy old grognard like me can admit to that.

Maybe with the upcoming snowy weekend, I'll get some time to dig deeper into the reprint box.


Monday, February 3, 2014

And Then there Were Two - Two Copies of the OD&D Wooden Box Reprint Arrived Today



I had ordered the OD&D wooden box reprint from Amazon last year, and it looked like it was never going to ship. When I found a Barnes & Noble gift card I had forgotten about, I figured I'd place and order there too. Whichever arrived first I would cancel the other.

Of course, both arrived tonight. Go figure.

I'll be announcing an "OSR Competition" later on this week with donated cash awards. Yes, cash awards. The 1st place finisher, in addition to any cash award will also get my 2nd copy of the OD&D wooden box reprint. I figure it was meant to be as such. Why tempt fate?

Want to get a head start? Download the Swords & Wizardry Complete rules from the link to the left right if you don't already have it and think about a unique magic item you would design for the system. More details to follow, but that's the head start. There will be multiple rounds to the competition and multiple awards.

Start your brainstorming now...

Thursday, December 26, 2013

I Know That the OD&D Reprint Box is in the Wild, But Amazon Has Yet to Fill My Pre-order - Anyone Else?

Amazon advertised the OD&D Reprint Box at about 40% of retail, so I preordered back in August. Sure, I hate the cover art on the new books, but I figured it would give me actual reading copies without needing to break out my Original Collector's Edition box.

Let's see - the said the release date was Dec 17, 2013 with the end of October update.

They repeated that release date with the end of November update.

Then my Christmas gift from Amazon was this email:
We're still trying to obtain the following item[s] you ordered on August 04, 2013 (Order# 002-37xxxxx-81xxxxx). 
Wizards RPG Team "Premium Original Dungeons & Dragons Fantasy Roleplaying Game (D&D Boxed Game)" 
Still want it? We'll keep on trying. To keep your order for this item open, please click the link below. Otherwise, we'll cancel your order on January 24, 2014, if we haven't located it by then.
Oh, and it shows out of stock on Amazon - was it ever "in stock"?

I know folks have copies - +Timothy Brannan has pictures on his blog today.

Anyone else have an unfulfilled order?

Tuesday, October 22, 2013

More WotC "Sneak Peeks" of the Original D&D Boxed Set Reprint Art - What is With The Damn "Flames"?

Is this something I've missed in recent fantasy gaming art? Flames or smoke effects on every piece? If so, it's about as annoying as sitcoms with laugh tracks IMHO.

Anyhow, the first piece, replacing the classic art for Monsters & Treasure isn't to my liking, but does a decent job of evoking the pose of the original - it's the fucking flames that are killing it for me:


WTF happened with the cover of The Underworld and Wilderness Adventures? It went from some winged horse creature that was NOT a Pegasus to a Roc on steroids - with flames of course. There isn't even an attempt to replicate the first cover - the horse had hooves - this eagle from hell has talons.

I really don't get this new art for a classic, iconic reprint. They could have found an artist that could have redone these pieces and still retained an "old school" feel, but it seems that WotC doesn't want to entice old school gamers to pick this up, and new school gamers are going to be disappointed as all hell by the contents. There is no "truth in advertising" left with these covers.

Damn shame.



Tuesday, February 19, 2013

Comparing OD&D to it's Nearest Clones - S&W Whitebox and Delving Deeper - Part IV: Weapons & Combat



Well, with the soon (alright, November) release of the "Deluxe" Reprinting of the Original Dungeons & Dragons Boxed set, this might all be moot, right? Because we're all going to be shelling out $150 for a new reprint of a cloned game. Well, actually, I might be one of the many suckers myself, but whatever ;)

So, when it comes to the Original and it's two main clones, how close is the combat system amongst them all?

Weapon (and armor) costs between OD&D and the Swords & Wizardry White Box are nearly identical across the board, which is kind of surprises me. I mean, sure, they changed up the order of the items, but except for things like the spear, the prices are the same. Delving Deeper changes up the prices to the point where you can't even figure out if there was a forumla they used - little rhyme or reason. Sure, it's a minor thing, but something that stands out none the less.

Damage for all weapons in the OD&D WB is 1d6, no matter the type or size. Of course, I can't actually find that rule, but I know it well. Damage in DD is also 1d6, no matter the weapon. Damage in S&W WB is 1d6, or + or -1 depending on the weapon. So, some diversity, but still based on the 1d6 concept for all weapons.

As for Attack Matrixes, things get a little complicated.

OD&D WB, a 1st level Fighting-Man needs an 18 to hit AC 2. Actually, that applies to 1st level Clerics and Magic-Users too. Every 3 levels (starting at 4th) a Fighting-Man moves up a step on the Combat Matrix (every 4 levels for Clerics and every 5 for Magic-Users). Each step on the Combat Matrix is an improvement of 2 to 3 points to the chance to hit. Phew!

DD starts Fighters with an 18 for AC 2, but Clerics and Magic-Users start at 19. Fighters improve by + 1 every other level or every level, Clerics are similar but slower and Magic-Users every other level get + 1.

S&W WB starts everyone at a 17 to hit AC 2 (there's also an acceding AC option, but we'll avoid that for now). Otherwise, the breakdown of the combat charts are similar to DD. Not exact, but similar.

So, snapshots:

A Fighting-Man (Fighter) 1st Level against AC 2 needs: OD&D 18 / DD 18 / S&W WB 17

A Fighting Man (Fighter) 5th Level against AC 2 needs: OD&D 15 / DD 15 / S&W WB 14

A Fighting Man (Fighter) 10th Level against AC2 needs: OD&D 10 / DD 11 / S&W WB 11

Interesting how S&W WB starts out with the better attack chance, and winds up tied for the worst

Reprint or Originals? Where Will Your Money Go?

With WotC reprinting the Original Dungeons & Dragons Boxed Set (in a real wooden box, not just a wood-grained finish) the question seems to be (at least for those interested in the material being reprinted):

Buy a used version of the original, at a higher price -

or

Buy a new version of the original, at a high price (but no where near as high as the original) -

or

Buy and own both -

or

Settle on a cloned version.

I guess all the above is a valid answer too, as I have the originals and the clones, all in nice white boxes.

Lord knows i don't need this latest cash grab by WotC, especially with the new cover art (what were they thinking?). Not saying I won't pick it up, but I certainly don't need it.

What are your thoughts?


Monday, February 18, 2013

Original Edition Dungeons & Dragons Premium Reprint - In a Real Wooden Box



Thanks to +Jason Paul McCartan for bringing this to my attention.

WotC has decided to go with a "premium" reprint of the 3 LBBs and the four supplements (from the site - a mere $149.99 with a release date of November 19, 2013):


A premium, deluxe edition of the Original D&D "White Box"!

The original Dungeons & Dragons boxed set was published by TSR, Inc. in 1974 and was the very first roleplaying game, introducing concepts that have persisted throughout later editions. It included three small rules booklets in a white box.

This deluxe, premium reprint of the original "White Box" features new packaging and includes the following seven booklets:

Volume 1: Men & Magic
Volume 2: Monsters & Treasure
Volume 3: Underworld & Wilderness Adventures
Supplement I: Greyhawk
Supplement II: Blackmoor
Supplement III: Eldritch Wizardry
Supplement IV: Gods, Demi-Gods & Heroes
Each booklet features new cover art but is otherwise a faithful reproduction of the original, including original interior art.

Wednesday, February 13, 2013

Comparing OD&D to it's Nearest Clones - S&W Whitebox and Delving Deeper - Part III: The Classes (Demihumans)



Now we peek at the demihumans:

(as I have all of these in PDF, I'll be copying the relevant parts and making comments from there)

Original Dungeons & Dragons

Dwarves:  Dwarves may opt only for the fighting class, and they may never progress beyond the 6th level (Myrmidon). Their advantages are: 1) they have a high level of magic resistance, and they thus add four levels when rolling saving throws (a 6th level dwarf equals a 10th level human);2) they are the only characters able to fully employ the +3 Magic War Hammer (explained in Volume II); 3) they note slanting passages, traps, shifting walls and new construction in underground settings; and 4) they are able to speak the languages of Gnomes, Kobolds and Goblins in addition to the usual tongues

Elves (these folks get tricky): Elves can begin as either Fighting-Men or Magic-Users and freely switch class whenever they choose, from adventure to adventure, but not during the course of a single game. Thus, they gain the benefits of both classes and may use both weaponry and spells. They may use magic armor and still act as Magic-Users. However, they may not progress beyond 4th level Fighting-Man (Hero) nor 8th level Magic-User (Warlock). Elves are more able to note secret and hidden doors. They also gain the advantages noted in the CHAINMAIL rules (I guess if you don't have the Chainmail rules you're crap outa luck for those advantages)when fighting certain fantastic creatures. Finally, Elves are able to speak the languages of Orcs, Hobgoblins, and Gnolls in addition to their own (Elvish) and the other usual tongues.

Halflings: Should any player wish to be one (I guess Raggi wasn't far off in making them a "throw away" class - heck, ACKS leaves the race out altogether), he will be limited to the Fighting-Men class as a halfling. Halflings cannot progress beyond the 4th level (Hero), but they will have magic-resistance equal to dwarves (add four levels for saving throws), and they will have deadly accuracy with missiles as detailed in CHAINMAIL.

Other Character Types: There is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as virtually anything, provided they begin relatively weak and work up to the top, i.e., a player wishing to be a Dragon would have to begin as let us say, a "young" one and progress upwards in the usual manner, steps being predetermined by the campaign referee. (this goes far in showing just how "open" OD&D was meant to be)


Delving Deeper

Dwarves: Dwarfs are as fighters excepting that they are the only characters able to employ the +3 war hammer to its full potential. They are adept at evading large, clumsy enemies and suffer only half damage from such foes as giants and ogres (i'm guessing this comes from a later supplement or Chainmail?). Moreover, a dwarf makes all saving throws at four levels higher than his actual level (I would have read the original as applying only to magic attacks and spells, but I can see the justification for this way of reading it). He is, however, limited to the 6th level of advancement.

Dwarfs are expert miners and able to note any new construction, shifting walls, slopes, falling slabs, false floors and the like in dungeon stonework. They are also able to discern noises on a roll of 5-6 (on a six-sided die) when listening at doors.

Additionally, dwarfs are able to speak the language of gnomes, goblins and kobolds, in addition to the Common tongue and their own language.

Elves: Elves begin as either fighters or magic-users, but can change class between adventures as often as desired. An elf becomes dual-classed when he changes class for the first time, and may thereafter use both the weaponry of a fighter and the spells of a magic-user simultaneously.

The dual-classed character must maintain separate experience point totals for each of his classes, with all earned experience going toward his currently active class. He uses the more favorable game statistics of both classes during play, but cannot act as a magic-user while wearing non-magical armor.

Elves deal +1 hit point of damage when employing magic weapons and are able to move and fire a bow without penalty when on foot. They are nearly invisible in their gray-green cloaks, and can move almost silently. Additionally, they are able to locate secrets doors on a roll of 3-6 on a six-sided die when actively searching, or on a roll of 5-6 when merely passing by. They also discern noises on a roll of 5-6 when listening at doors and are immune to the paralyzing touch of ghouls.

They are, however, limited to 4th level as fighters and to 8th level as magic-users.

Elves are able to speak the languages of gnolls, hobgoblins, and orcs, as well as their own language, their alignment tongue, and Common.

Halflings: Halflings can choose to be fighters, but are limited to the 4th level. They have deadly accuracy with missiles, adding +1 to attack rolls, and discern noises on a roll of 5-6 on a six-sided die when listening at doors. Despite his diminutive stature, a halfling is highly resilient and makes all saving throws at four levels higher than his actual level. (at least there isn't a comment saying "should a player wish to be one")

Swords & Wizardry WhiteBox

The Dwarf: Dwarves tend to grow up in underground cities. As such, Dwarves easily take note of certain features of stonework: sloping corridors, moving walls, and traps made of stone (in particular: falling blocks, rigged ceilings, and tiny slits designed to release arrows, darts, or poison gas). There are no established rules or die roll for making use of these abilities; exactly what the Dwarf does or does not perceive is for the Referee to decide.

Dwarven Race Abilities

Character Advancement: The only character class available to Dwarves is that of the Fighter, and they are typically allowed to advance only as high as 6th level.

Weapon and Armor Restrictions: Like human Fighters, Dwarves have been trained in warfare and have no restrictions on the weapons or armor they may use.

Fighting Giants: Giants, ogres, and similar giant-type creatures such as trolls are not good at fighting dwarves, and only inflict half the normal damage against them. (i'm guessing this comes from a later supplement or Chainmail?)

Keen Detection: Dwarves are good at spotting traps, slanting passages, and construction while underground.

Saving Throw: Dwarves do not use magic and, as such, are somewhat immune to its effects; they receive a +4 bonus on saving throws vs. magic (whether or not the alternate “Saving Throw Matrix” is used). (see, I would interpret the save bonus this way too)

Languages: For campaigns that give each race its own dialect, Dwarves should be able to speak with gnomes, goblins, orcs, and kobolds.

The Elf: The Referee can interpret Elves in many different ways. Are they faerie-folk of Irish legend, the Vanir of Norse mythology, or perhaps something more akin to the Elves of Tolkien’s imagination?

As a baseline, most Elves are associated with magic as well as being skilled with the sword and bow. The Elven adventurer may choose, on any given day—perhaps when the moon rises—whether to use the capabilities of the Fighter or Magic-user. As a result, the Elf has two alternate advancement paths (experience points, hit dice, saving throws, “to-hit” bonuses, etc.) depending upon whether he donned steel that day or summoned up the power to cast spells.

Elves must use a spell book to prepare spells, just as a Magic-user. Spells disappear from his casting capability once they are cast, until prepared again.

Elven Race Abilities

Character Advancement: Elves may use either the Fighter or Magic-user class advancement charts, to be announced at the start of an adventure. They are typically allowed to progress only to 4th level as Fighters and 8th as Magicusers.

Weapon and Armor Restrictions: When an Elf adventures as a Magic-user, the character has the same weapon and armor limitations as a Magic-user. The exception to this would be magic armor, which may still be worn even when the Elf is acting as a Magic-user.

Hereditary Foes: Elves gain an extra +1 (“to-hit” or to damage) when fighting goblins, orcs, intelligent undead, and lycanthropes. Elves are also immune to paralysis caused by undead such as ghouls.

Keen Detection: Elves are good at spotting hidden and concealed doors (1-4 on a d6 when searching, 1-2 on a d6 if just passing by).

Languages: For campaigns that give each race its own dialect, Elves should be able to speak with gnolls, goblins, orcs, and hobgoblins.

The Halfling:  Halflings are short, often stout, and live in shires, rustic communities that are usually remote from those of larger folk. A few of them have a mildly adventurous spirit, enough to venture forth for a while at least, exploring the world beyond the farms and fields of the local shire.

Halfling Race Abilities

Character Advancement: The only character class available to Halflings is that of the Fighter, and they are typically allowed to advance only as high as 4th level.

Weapon and Armor Restrictions: Like human Fighters, the Halfling has no weapon or armor restrictions.

Fighting Giants: Giants, ogres, and similar giant-type creatures such as trolls are not good at fighting small creatures such as halflings and dwarves, and only inflict half the normal damage against them.

Deadly Accuracy with Missiles: Halflings receive a +2 “to-hit” when firing missile weapons in combat.

Near Invisibility: When not engaged in combat, Halflings can be quite stealthy, making themselves hard to spot and moving in almost total silence.

Saving Throw: Halflings are somewhat immune to magic, and receive +4 on saving throws vs. magic (even if the “Saving Throw Matrix” is used).

Languages: For campaigns that give each race its own dialect, Halflings should be able to speak with creatures that fit the style of the Referee’s campaign.

Both Delving Deeper and Swords & Wizardry Whitebox flesh out the races with combat abilities "kinda" detailed in Chainmail. I know the Elves Secret Door Detection is iconic, I just dont see it in book 1 of OD&D (it could be there and I just dont see it). Interesting how DD goes for the low roll and S&W WB goes for the low roll.

I'd have to say that S&W WhiteBox is the better organized of the three so far, although DD does a decent job of explaining things and keeping it short.





Tuesday, February 12, 2013

Comparing OD&D to it's Nearest Clones - S&W Whitebox and Delving Deeper - Part II: The Classes (Core Three / Four)



Now we move on to the meat of the matter: the classes. This post will deal with the "Core Three / Four".

Original Dungeons & Dragons:

Here we have three classes (although many see the Thief as "core" it wasn't initially. That being said, we will use Supplement I to cover the Thief class). Fighting-Men, Magic-Users and Clerics. Then we have Dwarves (Fighting Men), Elves (Fighting Men and Magic-users) and Halflings (piss poor Fighting Men). Organization of the presentation of the classes is piss poor, but that is part and parcel of the OD&D presentation of classes. Some call it charm. I call it something that the clones definitely got right.

Fighting-Men - Can use all magical weaponry. More hit dice.

Magic-Users - Can use "a whole plethora of enchanted items". Wizards (11th level) and above may create magic items. Spells obviously

Clerics - Can use magic armor and all non-edged magic weapons and can cast Cleric Spells as well as Turn Undead. At 7th level must declare for either Law or Chaos

Thieves (Greyhawk Supplement) - Thief skills increase per level as a percentage, except for Hear Noise, which is bases on a d6. I can't find backstab info for thieves in Greyhawk. Maybe I missed it.  Bottom of page 4 - found it thanks to Eldric IV :)

Delving Deeper:

The Fighter - Can use the majority of magic weaponry, withstands more damage, against enemies 1+1 HD or less gains 1 attack per level.

The Magic-user - Greatest selection of enchanted items. At 9th level can enchant items of his own. and of course spells

The Cleric - Must choose law or chaos. Can use armor and shields, but edged and piercing weapons are prohibited. At 2nd level gains a spell book of first level spells. (WTF?). Turn undead.

The Thief (optional class) - thief skills succeed on a 3-6 on a D6 - no matter the level. Can read magic-user spells scrolls at 9th level. Backstab is +4 hit, with 2 dice of damage for every 4 levels or fraction thereof.

Swords & Wizardry WhiteBox:

The Fighter - Can use all weapons and armor.  Against foes 1 HD or lower, 1 attack per level.

The Magic-user - No mention of creating magic items.

The Cleric - Blunt weapons and any armor. Spells. Turn Undead

The Thief - ain't got none ;)

So, my observations:

Delving Deeper makes a claim that it keeps closer to the original, but I don't see it just yet. Since when did Clerics have Spell Books? (since page 34 apparently)

I've heard it mentioned that the DD Thief class is based on so "proto" version before the published version in Greyhawk. Whatever, it's not based on a published version - the one that EGG presented. It doesn't feel "right". If you are going to make the argument that you are closer to the original than other clones, why stray so far?

Both DD and S&W WB have fighters getting multiple attacks against 1HD creatures. I remember that from AD&D, I haven't found it yet in the OD&D set, but God himself knows where it might be buried ;)


Monday, February 11, 2013

The Three "White Boxes" of D&D and It's Clones



I find it interesting that the Delving Deeper box is more subdued in coloring. The "white" is less white than the S&W WhiteBox and the black ink has a built in fade to the color - almost like the box was aged.

Something you can't see in this photo is that the S&W WhiteBox and the Delving Deeper have their title on the short end sides and artwork on the long end sides. Pretty nifty.

It's similar with the X-Plorers boxed sets (I have numbers 52 and 60).

Anyhow, I'll continue with the comparison look tomorrow.

Comparing OD&D to it's Nearest Clones - S&W Whitebox and Delving Deeper - Part I: The Abilities

I really need a better title for this series of posts i if you think of one, let me know;)

Anyhow, with the recent arrival of my Deeper Delving Boxes set, I thought it might be fun to compare it to the Original Dungeons & Dragons Boxed Set. Then I figured "Why not add in S&W Whitebox to the mix?" Really, why not? My boxed set is packed away in storage, and my paperback version is currently hiding on me, but I do have the PDF of the 3rd printing.

Remember, if you want to play along at home, the PDFs for Delving Deeper and S&W Whitebox are free. You can find links to both to the right of this post, under the heading FREE OSR GAMES.

The character book for OD&D is called Men & Magic (it also includes the spells), it's called Forging a Hero in DD and the S&W PDF isn't really broken down into separate books.

Original Dungeons & Dragons Abilities Section -

Horribly organized, but the same could be said about most of the LBBs. I'm sure some of this info is hidden in other books.

Prime Requisite of 13 or 14 for 5% expo bonus. 15+ for 10% expo bonus. 8 or 7 1-% penalty. 6 or less 20% penalty.

Strength: no bonuses listed. Mentions in description "will also aid in opening traps"

Intelligence: no bonuses listed. "Allows additional languages to be spoken"

Wisdom: no bonuses listed

Dexterity: above 12 (that's confusing) + 1 missile fire, under 9 - 1 missile fire

Constitution: 15+ + 1 HP per hit die. 13 or 14 "Will withstand adversity" (huh?) and some other survival %'s for lower cons

Dexterity: above 12 (that's confusing) + 1 missile fire, under 9 - 1 missile fire

Charisma: full chart breaking down number of hirelings and loyalty bonus based on Charisma score



Delving Deeper Player Characters Section -

Much better organized than OD&D, but what isnt? (answer - Tunnels & Trolls 5e)

Prime Requisite of 13 - 15 for 5% expo bonus. 16+ for 10% expo bonus. 6 - 8 10% penalty. 5 or less 20% penalty. So, a bit harder to get + 10% expo.

Strength: 15+ + 1 damage in melee. Full chart for opening door and movement by weight load.

Intelligence: Languages Known chart (applies to Wisdom too - use higher of the two)

Wisdom: Languages Known chart (applies to Intelligence too - use higher of the two)

Dexterity: 15+ for + 1 missile fire. 6- for -1 adjustment.

Constitution: 15+ + 1 HP per hit die. Includes a proper chart with "Survive Shock" %. 13+ will always survive. So, makes more sense than the original.

Charisma - full chart breaking down number of retainers and loyalty bonus based on Charisma score. Mirrors original exactly except for max number of retainers / hirelings (max is 10 in DD, 12 in OD&D)



Swords & Wizardry White Box "Getting Started" -

Puts Con before Dex on the character sheet. Weird. Crapload of optional rules baked in for you to choose from that bring things closer to OD&D (or further, depending on the alternate rules). Why the original method wasn't default and the new methods weren't the alternates? no idea

Prime Requisite: 15+ 5%, Wis 15+ 5%, Cha 15+ 5%. Very different

Strength: No bonuses listed

Intelligence: 1 additional language for each point of Int above 10

Wisdom: No bonuses listed

Constitution: 15+ + 1 to each Hit Die. 6- - 1 to each Hit Die

Dexterity: 15+ + 1 to hit bonus with ranged weapons. 8- -1 penalty.

Charisma: Chart maxes out with even lower Max # of Hirelings (7) and a lower max Loyalty Bonus (+ 2 instad of + 4)

Charisma slipped to the next page











Sunday, February 10, 2013

Thinking of Comparing the Delving Deeper and Dungeons & Dragons OCE Boxed Sets, Side by side


The thought has occurred to me to compare to Delving Deeper Boxed Set with the Original D&D Boxed set (with Greyhawk included for the purpose of the Thief Class).

The Thief classes do not match up, but that was discussed earlier, and I received a nice history lesson at the same time. It still irks me though ;)

What I really should do is break out my Swords & Wizardry White Box, but I believe that's in storage. I do have the paperback version floating around though.

I will say this much - the originals lie flatter, allowing me to fit more stuff in the box ;)

I'll be making some observations throughout the week I expect. On of the benefits of being on vacation...


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