I'm sitting here, staring at my screen, not because I don't know what to say, but because I know saying it will bring me the ire of certain members of the gaming community whose mission has turned into an agenda.
I'm going to say it anyway.
Enough with the Bad Wrong Fun. It's tiring. If you don't like it when some of the original members of the gaming community (who happen to be males) run games that are "women only" at certain Old School Gaming Cons, present alternatives. Don't label the games as sexist, offer something qualitatively better. Less whining, more doing.
Folks like Frank, Tim, James, Merle and others aren't running these sessions to hold some kind of power over female gamers, they are doing it to empower female gamers. If it's not your chosen method in which to have female gamers empowered - don't participate. This "my way or the highway" shit has to end at some point. Again, enough with the Bad Wrong Fun. Rach had more fun in Merle's Top Secret "All Ladies" game than any other gaming session she played in (possible exception made for +Tim Snider 's Timemaster session in June of 2014)
Note to any members of the gaming community that prey on female members of our community - you better hope I'm not at the gaming table if your unwanted advances turn into anything resembling criminal activity, because I will hold you for local law enforcement. I'm not talking the stumbling ass that doesn't know how to approach a woman, I'm taking the tard that thinks unwanted physical contact is cool. I've never seen it myself, but I do know it happens, so consider yourself warned.
As an a side, to any that will be at NTRPG Con this year, feel free to say hello, shake hands, share some beers, tell me that The Tavern sucks, why you hate cops - whatever. I like to think I'm approachable. If I don't recognize you, introduce yourself. Part of the reason I became a cop nearly 20 years ago was that everyone in my department wore name tags in uniform and I suck with putting names to faces.
Wow. I may have written this without cursing. That's a first. Wait, I used "shit". Is that technically still a curse these days?
Exeperiences In The Care & Handling of A Stormbringer first edition Campaign
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One of the advantages that Rogue Mistress allows a DM to do is to take an
'across the board' approach to thier campaigns. Want to bring in a PC from
Hawkm...
31 minutes ago
Scratch that- I'm not going to engage over here. I'd love to talk to you in person at NTRPG though.
ReplyDeleteI'll be fairly easy to find. The Tavern is even sponsoring a room :)
DeleteIf you think that discussion was about badwrongfun then you don't get it. I get that you're coming from a good place, but you should understand their grievance before making a blog post.
ReplyDeleteI understand Stacey's grievance very well, as she's been voicing it since last summer: Old White Men running games for women is inherently offensive.
DeleteIt's not what the games are labeled: "Ladies Only" If they were labeled "Old White Male Grognards Running Games for the Female Gender Only" she would still be offended.
I disagree with Stacey's current methods, but not her goals. My wife whole heartedly disagrees. I find her attacks on certain members of the community highly offensive and I think she has lost sight of her stated mission, which I believe was to bring more women into the hobby.
If your not with Stacey, you're against her. I learned that last year, when she complained that I didn't approach her at NTRPG Con when I MUST have seen her, as she noticed me and my wife multiple times.
First, if you notice me, approach me if you want to interact. I'm blind without my glasses (and frequently went without at the Con, especially in the bar area ;) and Rach is legally blind (glasses don't help). We don't recognize anyone but our good friends at a distance.
Second, I didn't notice Stacey except one time when she was playing in a game, and I was not going to introduce myself and interrupt the session for others. I might be an opinionated ass, but I try not to be a simple ass.
Tenkar, half of your response to me was this explanation about that thing she wrote about you rather than the larger issue at hand. You sure this isn't about her just shitting in your cereal? Those adult male game designers I'm sure, can stand up for themselves.
DeleteJason, she's been harping on this since last summer. There is an issue here, and it's the idea that there is only one way to achieve a goal, and it's Stacey's way or no other.
DeleteI think Stacey can stand up for herself BTW. She is an adult female game designer, no?
I am all for the Ladies only games, simply for the fact that I have seen many women who have not found their "gaming voice" be intimidated by male gamers. Personally, only 4 or 5 women that I have had in my games or have gamed with had had the big personality it takes to be in these games (I am often reminded of Police Academy, when the female finds her voice at the end) and sometimes a session or two with my crew did wonders...
ReplyDeleteIt is nice to see the women play without the male influence. Now to complain about the old men running games for women, that is a stretch to call that lecherous in my humble experiences, unless they are obliged to show up in Chain mail bikinis...
I didn't happen to like the fact that "ConTessa" only allowed female GMs, as if male GMs weren't good enough. Quite frankly, I fundamentally disagree with both approaches; anytime you set out to only include one thing (like only one gender of player or GM), you are excluding something else, thus perpetrating the discrimination you claim to rail against. Honestly, if the gender/race/sexual orientation/politics/religion of the people you game with is more important than the game, I don't want you at my table.
ReplyDeletehad that discussion with Stacey early on when she complained she couldn't round up enough GMs. I explained cutting out 85% of potential GMs might be the issue.
DeleteWent south from there...
I remember your G+ post on that. Road that wreck of a discussion down with you if I recall correctly. One guy kept on about how we were saying things that we never said.
DeleteWhich is the usual script in these discussions.
DeleteWhat'd I (blissfully) miss this time?
ReplyDeleteI chased some links around. It seems to have started from a FB post from two weeks ago, although maybe something has popped up on a blog since then.
DeleteWell said , If observing something wrong act. But don't paint the elder statesmen of the community with the same broad brush and attempt to SJW elitist campaign because you have not gotten introduced. Trust me it was worst in 77.
ReplyDeleteIf you'd provide a link it would save me like 5-10 minutes of trying and failing to google this crap to figure out what you're talking about. (Yes, continuing to beat that dead horse). Please don't make me trawl G+ for the one post on her site that must have gotten you worked up. Pllllleeeease.
ReplyDeleteactually, it was Frank on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/frank.mentzer/posts/1035464023200015
ReplyDeleteSoon as I read this, Stacey was the name that came to mind. Wasn't a shocker that Stacey and her Fembot movement is the cause of this. She really has dropped off the deep end with her started as an awesome concept to a full blown Fem movement that basically says they hate men (yeah she doesn't say it flat out, but look at her comments, she does)
ReplyDeleteFembot movement? Hates men? Christ, dude, really?
DeleteYes, really. Have you read her comments? Apparently not.
DeleteVincent, I haven't read every comment she's made on social media if that's what you're asking. Even so, I suspect you're reading into it what you what to read into it, and all of the stuff that goes into doing that, that I don't feel like unpacking right now.
DeleteI will however say this: I've done alot of comment reading the past couple of days, specifically when it comes to women in the hobby (This, the pundit article etc) and what I've seen is not good. I'm talking specifically in the OSR here. I've heard people from outside the OSR making snide remarks about some of our attitudes on issues like this in the past, and I always brushed them off, saying it wasn't as bad as they thought it was etc. But honestly, now, I agree. I get it now. And it's depressing.
Dude. I was all for Stacey in the beginning, I even helped her promote her message, thought it was a great concept. I still think its a good concept. It just seems over time, she's slid into this dark place and she's just digging that hole in the dark place with her comments and statements.
DeleteWhat exactly is wrong with my post?
DeleteI disagree with Stacey that there is only ONE WAY to empower women in gaming and to bring more women into gaming.
Stacey's words: "Women Players - Male GM
It's not a cool thing to put a man in a place of power over a bunch of women."
Again, I disagree with her. My wife disagrees with her. Other women who have played in sessions run by "Old White Men" (her choice of words) disagree with her.
It's not that Stacey's goal is wrong - it's noble. It's her idea that only she can tell women the one true path and that all others are doomed to gamer's hell that get's depressing.
I get that she doesn't like me (http://www.tenkarstavern.com/2015/07/as-much-fun-as-box-of-rocks-no-really.html) and that's fine. I'm okay with that. But she is alienating a large part of the community that she is supposedly trying to help - other women.
As I said before, offer a better alternative to women in gaming to "Old White Men" as GMs and she'll have what she wants. I suspect though, that many female gamers would rather play in an All Female Players session run by Male Originators of the Hobby Whose Reputation as GMs is that of Masters to A Session GM'ed by a Female Novice.
Take gender out of the previous sentence and the results will be the same.
It wasn't just about your post, Tenkar. I'm moreso referring to the discussion the articles generated,in the comment sections and elsewhere, rather than the articles themselves, though Pundit's article was vile trash (mores than usual).
DeleteThe Pundit wants attention and he gets it via "shock and awe" in discussions like this.
DeleteSadly, if he has a point to make it's often missed behind the "look at me! I'm a vile beast and your all swine!" presentation.
Pundit is the living embodiment of what a real 'attention whore' is. All he cares about is himself and he'll do anything to spread the word of his delusional world of grandeur.
DeleteResorting to "fembot" as a derogatory is incredibly lame.
DeleteSeems like every venue a person turns to for entertainment/distraction has someone else trying to demonstrate how and why you are 'doing it wrong'. Maybe that is their own personal avenue of entertainment? Either way, it seems like a niche argument to be sure - nothing to see here, movin' on.
ReplyDeleteI'm just gonna say, "part of the reason I became a cop nearly 20 years ago was that everyone in my department wore name tags in uniform and I suck with putting names to faces" has to be one of the best reasons to take a job. Ever. I also have a shitty memory; I wish I'd thought of that...
ReplyDeleteYea, this whole issue really got to me. Sure, I shake a fist to the SJW crowd more often than not, but to be honest not every SJW is a jerk. The article published by James Desbourah (I can never spell his name correctly)https://postmortemstudios.wordpress.com/ pushes back and I appreciate his candidness. ConTessa is a great idea and I hope it continues to grow and flourish. Having a wife in the gaming industry is a great blessing and I would love to see more women join the table, GM, write, produce, etc. Stacy really shoved a foot in her mouth and I feel has hurt the convention to some degree. She will never apologize (zealots never do), but perhaps someone can take the reigns from her and keep her idea and mission alive.
ReplyDeleteThe question is Does Stacey run Events where men are allowed or does she strictly cater to Women only?
ReplyDeleteI personally have only played in one Game ever where the DM was a women, it was her first time and she ran 3 sessions... the 3rd session was the best and she took charge of a mostly male game that the Guys had played together for a long time. by that time she was not a novice and ended being voted the Best Game master at the following convention. And the majority of her players were Males back in the Mid 90s
I think she is upset in general without having played in or witnessed the event.
I may bring my daughter with me if I attend Garycon next year and she would love these events
Contessa is Female GMs, and gender players from what I understand.
DeletePart of Stacey's argument is that male GMs are in a position of authority over female players.
DeleteI see the GMs chair as a position of responsibility, not authority.
There is a vast gap between those two viewpoints .
I think part of her issue is that "all Female games" is her shtick and feels that people are undermining her "Contessa" by having some of the BEST Gamemasters that ever lived run all female games. She truly feels that this threatens her as a "leader" in all womens gaming
DeleteI have read her post and the guys that that are like "You need to rethink your feeling" remind me of the puppy whipped men who feel lucky to talk to a women and do anything for their approval.. to quote the Godfather "You can act like a man!"
Just for the record, I never heard of her before this post so I had some light reading to do...
Gamers complaining about political correctness?!? What new madness is this?!?
ReplyDeleteWith regards to your fourth para - I think if there were more of the "If I see you do that kind of shit, you're not going to like the response", and then followed through on it, we'd have a far different conversation going on.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that the population of those who pull those kind of shenanigans are less of "those who prey" and more of those who think "Hey, we're all guys, n'yuck-n'yuck, what's wrong with a joke?" - in this changing world. Change is tough when we've grown up on a diet of "what is accepted" is no longer really a good idea.
(Side Rant - I hate the GDMFPOS "Sign out" button that I seem to always click instead of "Publish." *Every* single time. And lose my comment.)
my wife's response was "I'll kick the shit out of them and then turn them over to you" but if you know my wife, that didn't need to be said ;)
DeleteI don't, but if she's like @thePrincessWife, yea, there'd be some cold, bleeding stumps. Especially the neck stump.
Delete(Source - watching her do tai-kwan-do, and wondering if I'd survive with my judo... )
(probably not, depending how good you are. Leg grabbing is verboten in judo, and taekwondo is centered on kicks and keeping your body back. Getting in good position for a throw is a right bitch. I know four judoka who have belts in ITF taekwondo, from green-blue through black, who agree. Though they all agree that if you ever have to deal with a situation in the real world, judo is way easier to justify using that breaking bones...)
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