The First Step....

"Hi, my name is Chris and I'm a bit of a hoarder...."

<Appropriate OSR 12 Step Group> Hi Chris!

Like so many of us, I like to collect stuff. I've been adding a few items from online auctions and generally quite happy with the finds. Not totally sure if I'll be happy shelling out some big bucks for some choice items (to me) currently available, but time will tell.....

...one of my weekend tasks was to take stock of my HeroQuest game, which I have never played, which is my problem. I thought it was an overly expensive game, but I managed to find a copy at Gamestop that wasn't $135 (?!) As soon as I picked it up, before I even broke the shrink, I noticed there were "already" some expansions available. One was clearanced at a Gamestop, and a couple were available from my FLGS.

I'm planning on making a custom box to store all the bits and bobs, which is why I needed to take stock. Since I had no idea how many expansions are available I figured a quick interwebs search will help...

....and now I have discovered that Hasbro/Avon Hill has put our four (4!) expansions this year so far. One was a new character which evidently sold out immediately and unless I want to shell out $80+ for what should be $15, I'm not getting it. Luckily two of the others are available at Amazon, one at a bit of a discount and the last one is "currently unavailable". Not sure if it had actually been released yet.

I did not actually purchase them on Amazon but instead drove down to the FLGS and sure, enough the three non-new-character expansions were available. I paid a bit more than Amazon, but really only because the one was on sale there. The FLGS thinks they might be getting more of that character pack/expansion in. I don't think so, but they told me that the distributor is quick to point out if the stock is sold out and they were allowed an order.....and now my name is on "the list".

Amazon doesn't do "a list". Best you can do is make a wishlist and maybe get notified if the item is available.....but that doesn't save diddly squat for you. Also, Amazon didn't have a copy of Sgt Fury and His Howling Commandos #167 for sale.....

So now I have the base HeroQuest game, one extra character pack, and eight....eight freakin expansions, for a game I haven't played yet. I just wanted a D&Dish board game with minis and I have what is becoming a monster of a game.

Yeah, I clearly have a bit of a problem......but if I pull this off it could be a good problem to have. If I can get my shit, er game sets, together, well I might have a game worth playing.

Just Discovered a New Console/Computer RPG for Under $10....

This weekend has been a pretty good one for me gaming-wise. Got to sling dice Friday night for a bit...and that'd normally be enough to record this as a good weekend (unless you have a shitty GM & group....been there, quit that, sorry if that hits close to home), but Saturday was a bit more game-filled than expected and this Sunday morning I'm dragging ass a bit because of it.

I know, I know, why should you care.....I'll get there...eventually.

So Saturday morning I managed to get a while hair up my ass and decided to finally break down and pick up a game I've been wanting to try for like, forever. Stopped in at my FLGS and they did not have a copy of HeroQuest. I've never played it, but it isn't a cheap game by any means, so deciding to pull the trigger on a $100+ game isn't something I take lightly.

Since that didn't happen, I drove around town, did my normal Saturday errands, and stopped off at my local Gamestop to look at used XBox games. That store did have a copy of HeroQuest, and it was $95! Online it's listed at $135.....yoinks, mine now. I haven't cracked it open yet because I don't need to see more minis I'm not going to paint and terrain I need, but am not going to build (I'll eventually do that is a lie I tell myself often). 

On a side note, I just did a HeroQuest google search and I think I may have started myself down a very dark and dangerous board game path.....holy hell there is a lot of add-ons and customization....this purchase may be my gateway drug to a new gaming addiction...(hope not).

While I was at Gamestop, well it was my main purpose for being there until I got sidelined by HeroQuest, I managed to pick up some games during a 4 for $20 (priced $10 or less). Normally it's hard for me to find enough games that I want to pretend I'll play, but I found three I liked & wanted to try, but I needed a fourth.....so I grabbed up Pillars of Eternity (Complete Edition).

Holy crap did I just luck out, and if you're anything like me you might be going, WTF is Pillars of Eternity? Hell, I didn't have clue.....just picked it up to round out my purchases figuring the $7 was essentially free. Now I had asked about the new Baldur's Gate game and Gamestop didn't carry codes or copies of the game. I liked the original Baldur's Gate game, have bought it like three time now, but the Xbox version.......suuuuuuuuuuuucckkssssssss. The controls are crap. I guess that the new Baldur's Gate 3 game isn't yet available for Xbox, and last I heard it will be download only and only available on the Xbox Series X. If you have a S or Xbox One, you're just SOL. Now that's just what I've heard....

If you don't want to wait and/or shell out $60 or like $560 if you don't have a Series X, and you liked the OG Baldur's Gate, then check out Pillars of Eternity. While it took a little getting used to, the controls (and graphics) are great and....well I'm impressed. It feels like instead of taking a tabletop RPG and forcing a console game over the top of it, they did the reverse. It's playable and a lot of the fiddly bits are pushed aside, but there if you need them. I don't quite understand the game mechanics 100%, but I don't need to. There's enough to get to just jump in and there's a lot of lore I can either dive into, or just gloss over.

I thought I'd just make sure the game ran, maybe see what character creation was like, and get through the intro. Next thing I know it's 1 AM. 

One thing I really liked it that this game doesn't coddle you and aside from a little necessary rail-roading during the intro, lets you figure things out on your own. A couple of barely-spoilery events in the first bits of the game:

• You enter your first "dungeon" with a couple of NPCs....or maybe they'll be party members....and one wants you to do one thing and the other definately doesn't want you to do that one thing. If you do what the one character wants, which makes sense and is totally reasonable, the other character nopes out.
• When you get past the end of the required adventure start railroad you're free to explore. You comes across a solitary character that is morning the loss of a friend to a bear attack. He warns you to not enter the cave to the North, which I promptly tried to do.....and got ganked hard. Well that dude did warn you..... My PC has leveled a couple times so I got back and try again. Oh hell no! That bear un-alived my group just as quickly as before, and this time I had tactics and everything. I'm not sure what level I need to be to overcome this brute, but so far the only way to survive this Kobayashi Maru is not to play.

There's a few game mechanics that I'm really enjoying, mostly because I have some pre-conceived notions that Pillars of Eternity is just not playing into. First is that I'm expecting party members to just come along for me to accept or turn down, so I'm talking to every character with a name. After a few hours of gameplay I've found one. That guy is an established new party member, but I could, and just did, hire an adventurer. When you do that you get to basically create them like you did your main PC, and so far there isn't really any difference between the hired gun and the discovered-in-the-wild party member.

The other new thing I like is actually kind of two-fold. When you level your character and get to add some traits/abilities, you can choose to add a low-level starting ability of another class. I haven't taken one of these options yet, but I'm hoping that can basically lead towards some sort of dual/multi classing. Speaking of classing, if you decided you don't like where your PC is heading ability-wise, you can pay to basically retrain (re-class) your PC. Again, not something I'm taking advantage of, but the fact it's there is pretty cool.

Pillars of Eternity was made by Obsidian Entertainment, who has done some damned fine computer games (pretty much too many to list) and this game was Kickstarted! I know, listing a successful big-budget gaming KS here at the Tavern is like almost unheard of. It's also available on Steam right now for a whopping $9.99 (for the version I have on XBox). I'm considering picking up the PC version as well for when I travel.

If you like isometric computer RPGs and don't want to (or can't) shell out $60+ for Baldur's Gate 3, then I highly recommend Pillars of Eternity.....for $10 or less....you'll defiantly get your money's worth!

Did I Mention that the HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Project is on it's Third Crowdfunding Site - Is the Third Time the Charm?

If you haven't been following the HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Saga, it's almost Don Quixote like, just on steroids. I've posted on it as have others, but the short of it is that both Kickstarter and one of the Spanish (as in Spain) crowdfunding sites removed it from their active projects due to legal (or potential legal) issues.

Well, when there is money to be made from customers that are willing to pay for a product up front with no guarantee said project will clear the legal hurdles (likely to be imposed when the game is actually printed and shipping) there isa need to find yet another crowd funding site.

Which is what Game Zone did - Lanzonos is now hosting the 3rd incarnation of the HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Crowdfunder. They've met their goal. Assuming Lanzoanos doesn't get cold feet, next Christmas should be an interesting time for those that back this products, as the chance to find coal in their stockings instead of HQ 25 is significant.

I'd rather back Nystul again - at least I know where my money would be going (kinda - anywhere but what I pledged towards ;)

HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Project Suspended From Spanish Crowdfunding Site! Surprised?

The saga continues. Bards will sing songs about the long but fruitless fight.

The HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Project has been taken down by the Spanish crowdfunding site named Verkami.

How could this have happened if they had the rights / owned the trademark / believed elephants could fly?

Because they (as in GameZone) see just one thing - dollar signs at this point. Let the games continue.

Dead link to the project is here: http://www.verkami.com/projects/7464-heroquest-25th-anniversary

edit: thanks to ThisOldCoder for the heads up

edit edit: grabbed the following screenshot from BoardGameGeek

HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Kickstarter is No More - Say Hello to "The Doom That Came to the HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Kickstarter"

Big thanks to +Jason Paul McCartan and the rest of the Kicksnarker Community on G+ for sharing this. You really can't make this shit up.

Now I will attempt to interpret the above for my fine readers:

"On 12/7 we will be using a Spanish crowdfunding platform named Verkami. We are doing so because we only have the HeroQuest trademark in Spain (but see below) and or use of it has been challenged by a holder of the trademark in the US. They wanted us to a) license the use of the trademark for our sales in the US and b) give them a written assurance that Hasbro has no issues with us marketing a 25th Anniversary edition of their game. We ignored both requests and they shut down our Kickstarter funding. Boo!"

No fucking idea what this sentence means. It's english, but not...

"Verkami requires us to complete the project or refund the money of supporters. We preferred Kickstarter, where many project creators spend their newly found riches on hookers and blow, but it's no longer an option."

"All those stretch goals we opened up on the Kickstarter side? We'll include them in the base project.'

But wait! There's more!

See, they have a "license" for HeroQuest in Spain, not the trademark. The trademark in Spain belongs to Hasbro's Spanish subsidiary.

Now someone DID apply from the HeroQuest trademark under BOARD GAMES in the US last week - link here

Applying for the trademark does not mean one actually HAS the trademark. I am damn well sure Venable, William Herny Cabell applied for the trademark at the request of Gamezone. edit: Apparently, he is a disbarred attorney. WTG Gamezone! edit edit: The application was filed the same day Kickstarter took down the project - 11/29.

Now, I know there are a refugee sized boatload of fans that want this game and fuck how it gets done, but does anyone reasonably suspect it will get done at this point? I see pure cash grab going on. Full speed ahead and damn the consequences.

I'd sooner give Nystul another bite at the apple then put my money on this.

More on the HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Fiasco, Now From GameZone

Did they really expect to NOT have these issues?

GAMEZONE Communiqué, Saturday 30

We would like to inform you all about the present situation, after the pause of our Kickstarter project by Moon Design P. during the thanksgiving holiday, which is an administrative petition within Kickstarter.

Yesterday, Friday, at the start of the day, U.S. east coast time, we sent a letter to Kickstarter, LINK invoking our legitimate trademark rights so they would deactivate the pause and let us progress in the fund raising campaign. We are waiting for Kickstarter’s reply on this matter.

Simultaneously we, Gamezone and Moon Design P., had a reunion to discuss this issue face to face as and not email exchange as was what was happening up till now.

Moon Design P. solicited the pause in Kickstarter because of fear that Hasbro could act against Gamezone in our crowed funding because we are using an American company on American soil. Their argument was that Hasbro could act against them as well for not impeding us in this project. Even thought they are not in any way included in this project or affiliated with it.

If Kickstarter does not reactivate the pause taking into account our letter ( indicated above in the link), then it can only be reactivated if Moon Design P. asks them to. For Moon Design P. to do so they are asking for two things: An official letter from Hasbro in which it states that they, Hasbro, will neither act against our HQ25th nor Moon Design P. They, Moon Design P., have also demanded a considerable sum and percentages from the Kickstarter project.

If we wait for Hasbro to make a declaration, which we can solicit, weeks or even months could pass. With that our production and creation calendar would be severely affected, as not having the funding to continue the campaign.

If the Campaign does not restart soon, the HQ25th will not be ready for Christmas 2014. It will not be ready to celebrate its anniversary.

There exist 3 possible solutions to this conundrum.

    1.    Kickstarter reactivates the project attending to our petition
    2.    Wait for Hasbro to declare that they are not against this crowed funding campaign of HQ25th en Kickstarter (an American Company).
    3.    Immediately move the crowed funning to a platform within Europe, where no risks of legal repercussions exist.

Option one; we can only wait, we cannot be sure that Kickstarter will lift the pause. We cannot influence their decision any more than we have already.

Option two; Hasbro is not obligated to do anything at all.

Option three; here there is no risk, except of course we will raise less funds, no other platform out there at this moment has the same public pull as  Kickstarter.

Why are we telling you this? As our backers, what would you like us to do?

Kickstarter Update - HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Edition - Moon Design's Reasoning on the Suspension of the Project

Huge thanks to Psychman, who just left this as a comment on the blogpost here. I think it needs to be shared to a larger audience, and thus this update:

"This is Moon Design's take on the situation:
Background concerning suspension of Gamezone’s Kickstarter campaign

We want to give some background on the dispute surrounding Gamezone’s Kickstarter campaign to launch a remake of the hybrid board game/roleplaying game originally published by Milton Bradley called “Heroquest”.

Last week, Moon Design petitioned Kickstarter to remove the crowdfunding campaign for Gamezone’s “Heroquest” game. “Heroquest” is the registered US trademark of Moon Design and is the name of our “Heroquest” roleplaying game and assorted products. To allow a game using the same name to be promoted in the United States through Kickstarter without a license would be an unacceptable dilution of our brand and create market confusion to our detriment.

The trademark “Heroquest” is registered by Francis Greg Stafford with the United States Patent and Trademark Office (Registration Number 4082281) for use in game book manuals. Moon Design Publications LLC has the exclusive license for use of that trademark. For some time now we have been working on creating a board game called “Heroquest” pertaining to the mythology of Glorantha and an updated version of our Heroquest roleplaying game.

The project by Gamezone, a Spanish game company, proposes to remake a role-playing/board game originally produced by Milton Bradley and Games Workshop in 1989. The project calls their game “Heroquest” which is identical to our registered mark and easily confused with it.

Gamezone initially asked us for use of the Heroquest trademark on July 31, 2013. The next day we asked them if they could provide us with a copy of any written agreement with Hasbro to produce a 25th Anniversary Edition of Hasbro’s board game. Gamezone did not provide us with any written confirmation (and as of this date still has not done so). On August 26, 2013, we informed Gamezone by email that we must decline their request.

Despite being explicitly refused permission to use our trademark, Gamezone went ahead and launched this Kickstarter. As a New York State corporation, Kickstarter is subject to US trademark laws and the use of our trademark in the campaign was a violation of those laws.We told Gamezone that they needed to immediately get a licensing agreement from us (which, among other things, would require that they pay us for the rights to the name since it would mean foregoing our opportunity to release our game using our trademark and to compensate us for that lost revenue).

Gamezone did not get back to us within the period we set, and rather than have this end up in litigation (which could also bring in other parties with IP at stake), we asked Kickstarter to suspend the campaign. We then spoke to Gamezone informing them that we had certain non-negotiable demands for any license agreement, among them a statement that Gamezone has explicit permission from Hasbro to make this game based on their IP. Gamezone has assured us that they can get such permission, but until we see confirmation, we cannot responsibly license our trademark to be used in this Kickstarter campaign.

We sympathize with the fans of the Milton Bradley game who enthusiastically supported this project. We strongly support Kickstarter and the revitalization of old games with a loyal following. However, such activities must be done with the consent of the trademark holder and of any other legal owners of the property."

Big sticking point seems to be the lack of a "statement that Gamezone has explicit permission from Hasbro to make this game based on their IP. Gamezone has assured us that they can get such permission, but until we see confirmation, we cannot responsibly license our trademark to be used in this Kickstarter campaign."

I suspect this is damn near close to dead.

Update - HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Project Pulled Down by Kickstarter Because of Cease & Desist Order From Moon Design

thanks to +Tor Traumann for the latest official statement from Gamezone:

Please bear with us. Gamezone and Moon Design are in a meeting negotiating a settlement for both parts at this time. 

Moon Design believes that their interests in the HEROQUEST brand within the USA will be infringed upon. Although we are not distributing or selling our product in US territory. As a precaution Moon Design presented a C/D on the 27th of Nov. Our talks are coming to a point where the negotiation will benefit all those involved, which finally would let us offer our product in stores in the USA sometime next year. 

The Moon Design C/D was suspended, but on the table, as another element in the negotiation. Here at Gamezone it is our hopeful understand that its activation is possibly by error as both parties where coming to an agreement. Said agreement would finally end beneficially for Fans in the USA by opening the physical distribution to stores in that country. This brief pause of activity is as harmful to the interests of Moon Design as it is to Gamezone Miniatures. 

We are as surprised as the Heroquest community, we didn’t expect that on Thanksgiving, of all days, to be wrapped up in this mess, that is so disagreeable for everyone involved. On a day such as this it is extremely complicated to get in touch with Moon Design. We are working diligently on a solution so we can continue with the project from where it is at the moment and reinforce it for the future.

I don't see this as harmful in the least to Moon Design. I'm sure they see the monies flowing into the Kickstarter and want a nice sized chunk of it for the use of their trademark. As for the following statement: "Moon Design believes that their interests in the HEROQUEST brand within the USA will be infringed upon. Although we are not distributing or selling our product in US territory." - Gamezone is selling to US customers directly through Kickstarter.

In any case, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Project Pulled Down by Kickstarter Because of "Intellectual Property Dispute"

Thanks to daffadu for updating the original post with this latest bit of news:

"This is a message from Kickstarter Support. We're writing to inform you that a project you backed, Heroquest 25th Anniversary, is the subject of an intellectual property dispute. 

The project has been removed from public view until the dispute is resolved, which can take up to 30 days. The project’s funding and the countdown to its deadline have been stopped. If the project becomes available again, the countdown will continue and the new deadline will extend past the original deadline for as much time as the project was unavailable. You can find out more by reading our Copyright Policy and our Trademark Policy." 

Am I surprised? No.

Do i expect it to get resolved anytime soon? Maybe for the 26th Anniversary...

Kickstarter - HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Edition - It Will Fund, But Will It Succeed?

I remember Heroquest. I had a copy that never got played, and in the end I looted it for dice and minis and chucked the rest. My group had absolutely no inclination to play it when we had choices such as Talisman, Lonely Mountain, Chaos Marauders and the like to choose from. Heroquest was aimed at kids. Whether that's a true statement or no, it was our perception.

Gamezone Miniatures of Spain are the ones running the new Heroquest 25th Anniversary Edition Kickstarter. Apparently, they have the license to produce Heroquest within Spain - so they can distribute within Spain and sell direct anywhere in the world.

Strangely enough, the Kickstarter is priced in Canadian Dollars, not Euros. Not sure what's up with that, and I wouldnt be surprised to see Hasbro, parent company of Milton Bradley, challenge the new edition's legality, and it certainly seems strange to watch a third party produce another company's product, apparently without permission - or at least, under a method not planned on under the deal made 25 years or so ago.

All that being said, the Kickstarter launched yesterday with a goal of $58k CAD and has already surpassed $309K CAD. Heck, this may give the Reaper 1 Kickstarter a run for it's money.

Can someone sell me on the game's appeal? I mean besides nostalgia, which I obviously don't have, as I looted the box and threw out the remainders...