tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post728003864325026631..comments2024-03-27T20:09:00.283-04:00Comments on Tenkar's Tavern: What the Hell is Going On with the New Vampire Game? Pedophilia this Time?Tenkarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comBlogger90125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-15104985173823192962017-06-22T22:00:46.640-04:002017-06-22T22:00:46.640-04:00Wow...reading Zak's replies made me sick. As...Wow...reading Zak's replies made me sick. As someone that Erik has studied, and Zak has apparently "encountered", I actually HAVE been molested. The fact that you are being so cavalier about your irresponsible depiction of pedophilia sickens me. <br />I really debated whether or not to even start this...because unfortunately all it does is drive traffic to your deplorable garbage fire.<br />I am going to quote a friend of mine here:<br />There's a difference between horror and shock, and people forget the difference between the two. The problem here is mostly in, I think, the people who recognize that the horror of becoming a monster through one's actions is the point, and not playing a monster because it's a "World of Darkness". Because the latter seem to be the ones writing for the company now, rather than the former.<br /><br />A lot of the. Push back I've gotten is "I'm a monster, of course i'm going to do horrible things! That's what monsters do!" At that point, you might as well play FATAL.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02993456930189381928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-58828403463399413172017-06-22T17:31:38.229-04:002017-06-22T17:31:38.229-04:001 - Sexual abuse of a child is (in general): prepl...1 - Sexual abuse of a child is (in general): preplanned, driven by an urge to commit said crime, repetitive (the victim is often victimized multiple times over the course of months or years), secretive (with the victim told they will get in trouble if they tell anyone), often committed by a family member / authority figure (parent, uncle, clergy and the like) - murder hobo crimes are crimes of opportunity. One and done.<br /><br />Note: Child molesters have hell on earth when they serve their sentence in prison. For some it becomes a literal death sentence. Even those serving life for violent and vile act of murder look down on child molesters as scum not fit to live.<br /><br />2 - in RPGs you assume a character. That is the point to the "roleplay" aspect of RPGs. Books and movies the story is written. The reader / viewer is along for the ride. In an RPG, you - the player - drive the story.<br /><br />I do think we have come full circle on this. If nothing else, VtM has gotten their pound of free publicity.<br /><br />Closing this post to further comments.Tenkarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-71792146338385937542017-06-22T15:07:41.151-04:002017-06-22T15:07:41.151-04:00To answer your question: being in the adult film i...To answer your question: being in the adult film industry, I know many former victims of childhood sexual trauma. I am not claiming superior knowledge to you, however, I am just trying to understand your specific fear of a specific outcome.<br /><br />So:<br /><br />You do indeed think that having a pedo in the game will make victims think being abused is normal.<br /><br />Why then:<br /><br />1. Does this apply to pedophilia but not all the other crimes the average murderhobo commits?<br /><br />and<br /><br />2. Does this matter in RPGs but not in books (re: your comment on Lolita above) or presumably movies? Why, to you, is the pedo presenting a potential victim with an RPG and having them read it s much more dangerous than having them presented with any other work (Interview w/a Vampire for example) which has an evil pedo protagonist?Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-82319834828209077142017-06-22T14:21:25.288-04:002017-06-22T14:21:25.288-04:00I told you my assumption - there are likely one or...I told you my assumption - there are likely one or more pedophiles that frequent your local FLGS and the publisher in this case is supplying gaming material that makes pedophilia social acceptable to roleplay.<br /><br />Victims of child molesters (especially pre and early teen) are frequently socially awkward and looking for acceptance. They are not, generally speaking, strong willed. Your potential child molester may present themselves as a mentor. "Hey, I'll teach you VtM. I know the rules. You'll be fine. Here, play this character. Its already written for you. Just pretend you are her" . Because pedophilia is such a natural thing, a major publisher presents one as a player character.<br /><br />What background do you have in child molestation or pedophilia? I took a 5 day / 40 hr investigative course on the subject matter. I've interviewed victims and perpetrators (often themselves prior victims - its a damning circle if ever there was one). There is nothing more nefarious and downright evil than child molestation.<br /><br />I suspect but can not prove that this was thrown is for simple "shock value" - "Look, were so edgy!" For a company that has never fully severed links with Ed Kramer, I'm not surprised.<br /><br />If the antagonist was a pedo, if they were "the ultimate evil", there would be nothing newsworthy. By making the pedo a protagonist, VtM gets a decent amount of viral publicity. All publicity is good publicity, even bad publicity.Tenkarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-43325878626149913492017-06-22T07:42:09.010-04:002017-06-22T07:42:09.010-04:00"Game store's responsibility for failing ..."Game store's responsibility for failing to vet either the game or the GM, or the publisher that put a pedo friendly scenario in a pedo's hands?"<br /><br />No, it isn't.<br /><br />So again same question:<br /><br />is it your assumption that a pedophile who has no interest in RPGs will divine that there's a pedophile character in the game and then become interested in them?<br /><br />And how is this "bait"? Do you think young people decide they would like to be abused because of this scenario?Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-77756031630720851572017-06-22T03:09:41.645-04:002017-06-22T03:09:41.645-04:00Same.
Not sure I'd choose to dwell on it at e...Same.<br /><br />Not sure I'd choose to dwell on it at every table - some players will be creeped out by it, and some will get off on it, and neither is a reaction we necessarily want in our casual funtime make-pretend activities - but it's part of the symbolic territory we're working in.Vonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04567409488489870622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-20492815662920573642017-06-22T02:01:11.686-04:002017-06-22T02:01:11.686-04:00@Venger Satanis: I thought it was only available o...@Venger Satanis: I thought it was only available on their one blog post. I totally forgot that they uploaded to DTRPG as well. :/<br /> <br />Ah warning would indeed have been a very good idea..Teylenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00928739532408492514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-71260212363402911112017-06-21T23:38:17.380-04:002017-06-21T23:38:17.380-04:00Sorry, Jennifer, but it's both officially publ...Sorry, Jennifer, but it's both officially published and aimed at old and new players alike. There was no warning of any kind at the places where the PDF is distributed. Did you see anything like "Noobs stay out!" or "adult content ahead"?Venger Satanishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04447932700800930510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-4129508275819293532017-06-21T21:16:40.659-04:002017-06-21T21:16:40.659-04:00Oh ok. Sorry I only have information based on what...Oh ok. Sorry I only have information based on what others have posted. Will it be official when the new edition ships? Robjechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05645323902708054221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-57443502392686433792017-06-21T16:46:14.057-04:002017-06-21T16:46:14.057-04:00It is not aimed at new players or officially publi...It is not aimed at new players or officially published.<br />It is aimed at people who know WW good enough and visit their blog and notice the Pre-Alpha playtest. Who basically want to try the newest edition as soon as they can.<br />It is not a introduction scenario and not aimed at new players.Teylenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00928739532408492514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-53889522476059986392017-06-21T16:34:49.307-04:002017-06-21T16:34:49.307-04:00No this is a pregen player character, in an advent...No this is a pregen player character, in an adventure which I belive is aimed at new players who are likely to use a pregen. So this would default to being an intro female character. As for DitVB I'd say that's a bit differnt since its supposed to be more of a disguise. Although its still pretty gross. But one thing being gross doesn't excuses another :pRobjechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05645323902708054221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-74463476495116777072017-06-21T15:35:09.749-04:002017-06-21T15:35:09.749-04:00I humbly retract my statement then. Thanks for cla...I humbly retract my statement then. Thanks for clarifying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-22194751952461080222017-06-21T13:40:01.357-04:002017-06-21T13:40:01.357-04:00No. It is one of 4 pregens PC.
The only female pre...No. It is one of 4 pregens PC.<br />The only female pregen on top.Teylenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00928739532408492514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-12677412910323724672017-06-21T13:05:24.585-04:002017-06-21T13:05:24.585-04:00Is this an NPC? Hmm it's like they busted out...Is this an NPC? Hmm it's like they busted out the Tzmisce (sp) level craziness right out of the gate where I can imagine they make a war ghoul out of kids just for kicks. Again I know nada outside Jyhad about the actual rpg.littlemutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17995764088506385208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-51379594730946131852017-06-21T12:44:39.094-04:002017-06-21T12:44:39.094-04:00You will almost always be able to find works that ...You will almost always be able to find works that address a theme worse.<br />While Vampire: The Masquerade is a tabletop RPG about (personal) horror you've been so far able to vary the monstrosity of your character. Ranging from slightly disturbed individuals to monstrous ones and maybe even not really bad people.<br />Having a right-winged/populist player character who utilizes a refugee center as dinner place, feeds on children, has murdered children and physically/emotionally abuses (younger) vampires is a lot of specific monstrosity with an unusual lot of spotlight on children.<br />Who are, within the scenario, irritatingly present (a baby and several minors).<br /> <br />While you might have an occasional "child vampire" or sometimes themes of "child abuse" addressed, it isn't a focus of VtM.Teylenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00928739532408492514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-8523492383122012682017-06-21T12:24:26.545-04:002017-06-21T12:24:26.545-04:00A Dance in the Vampire Bund seems a lot worse than...A Dance in the Vampire Bund seems a lot worse than this in terms of taking on the 'little kid is actually a hypersexualized, century-old vampire" theme. I only played Jyhad but these themes seem part of the genre. The vampires are supposed to be horrible monsters and I think these are called blood puppies? littlemutehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17995764088506385208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-19445490690477974532017-06-21T11:28:31.306-04:002017-06-21T11:28:31.306-04:00A few thoughts:
this is pure speculation but I wo...A few thoughts:<br /><br />this is pure speculation but I would wager some of the same people who hand-wring over the City Encounters table in the 1e Dungeon Masters Guide are willing to give this a pass.<br /><br />This is not the first dalliance Onyx Path has had with this. There's a comic/graphic strip in one of the Exalted books about a child that is kidnapped by a bunch of Abyssals, the implication being that they're going to spend eternity being raped by the captors.<br /><br />WW has always been hand-in-glove with tasteless shit, it should surprise no-one that their successor is, too.<br /><br />The Dungeon Delverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02264049494334933735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-35843439693594867742017-06-21T11:24:53.775-04:002017-06-21T11:24:53.775-04:00Anyone remember the Exalted The Infernals debacle?...Anyone remember the Exalted The Infernals debacle?<br /><br />Familiar territory for WW<br />RChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14351741248641613171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-29247604994440609932017-06-21T11:06:41.623-04:002017-06-21T11:06:41.623-04:00Speaking for myself, I don't think it's ne...Speaking for myself, I don't think it's necessary to have a pedophile VILLAIN in a piece of light entertainment either.<br /><br />And anyone who thinks their RPG product is in any way comparable to the works of Nabokov, or even Anne Rice, is badly deluded.TheShadowKnowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11073693648569864707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-62993570697631981222017-06-21T10:54:58.000-04:002017-06-21T10:54:58.000-04:00The Pre-Alpha Playtest won't be available in a...The Pre-Alpha Playtest won't be available in a FLGS. But only through the White Wolf blog. To make sure people who playtest it got the correct correct information and know how to provide feedback. <br /> <br />I (still) wouldn't expect anything like that on a shelf, virtual or real.Teylenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00928739532408492514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-88905838567923729562017-06-21T10:09:29.663-04:002017-06-21T10:09:29.663-04:00As an aside, if you think pedophiles / those with ...As an aside, if you think pedophiles / those with pedophile tendencies aren't already at your FLGS, you are sadly mistaken. They are driven to such locations now like they were to arcades when I was younger. Like moths to a flame, they go where their prey congregates. <br /><br />By all means, give the hunter bait for his prey. I mean, its like making VtM "real", right? Now that's edgy.<br /><br />Tenkarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-52663597455557145922017-06-21T07:54:53.655-04:002017-06-21T07:54:53.655-04:00Sorry Zak, I asked the last question. Answer it be...Sorry Zak, I asked the last question. Answer it before you ask more of your own. <br />Tenkarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-31736647548883276942017-06-21T06:11:18.353-04:002017-06-21T06:11:18.353-04:00@Stephen Pennisi The Werewolf imprints onto a newb...@Stephen Pennisi The Werewolf imprints onto a newborn.<br />Which in Twilight terms means he is bound to her and basically kinda imprinted to marry her no matter what,...Teylenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00928739532408492514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-59980951610772021872017-06-21T06:10:07.473-04:002017-06-21T06:10:07.473-04:00I would argue that child abuse is not presented in...I would argue that child abuse is not presented in a positiv light.<br />The character description paints her as despicable. If one wouldn't have an issue with her mistreatment of children, she's associated with the vocal populist organization PEGIDA on top ("Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamisation of the West").<br /> <br />If a players views a character on the right-winged spectrum, who feeds on kids, hunts at a refugee home and abuses other vampires as something positiv,... it might be more a personal problem to the player than to White Wolf.<br /> <br />The actions towards children are as well not painted as positive or even met with a normal approach. It pretty explicitly says that feeding from children will warrant a humanity roll or straight up humanity loss. To use the refugee center as hunting ground is mentioned to be only okay for characters devoid of humanity. Which is a reason why the character hides the center.<br /> <br />There is one player character who has it in his agenda to murder the character at first real chance. Plus if the character goes to the Anarchs, the coterie will learn that she eats children and murdered half a dozen in the refugee center. With the character being executed (if none of the other characters speaks / stands up for her).<br /> <br />It makes the whole thing quite a railroading exercise for the player who picks the char (more than the usual railroading the scenario presents). Though I don't see it setting pedophelia or child abuse into a positive light.Teylenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00928739532408492514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-89665669152246848112017-06-21T02:51:53.392-04:002017-06-21T02:51:53.392-04:00So is it your assumption that a pedophile who has ...So is it your assumption that a pedophile who has no interest in RPGs will divine that there's a pedophile character in the game and then become interested in them?<br />Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.com