tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post8654348500086128929..comments2024-03-27T20:09:00.283-04:00Comments on Tenkar's Tavern: D&D Next Player's Handbook Lists at 50 Bucks at Barnes & Noble - August 19 ReleaseTenkarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-72259770867169880982014-05-19T16:19:18.947-04:002014-05-19T16:19:18.947-04:00I assume your "10 Guy" argument was just...I assume your "10 Guy" argument was just to make your numbers work, though I can't say any GM would want to manage a game with 9 players.<br /><br />With a more realistic team size, a 5-man group of D&D Next would need:<br /><br />1 DM Guide, 1 Monster Manual, and 5 Player Guides. That's $350 buy in.<br /><br />The same 5 guys would need $300 to play the video game -- 5 copies of the game. <br /><br />You can't add in "expansion packs" just because it suits your argument. Most FPS "expansion packs" add new maps, new classes, and new weapons. In order to do the same in D&D, you'd need to buy extra books and tile sets, which means the "expansion pack" argument is a wash -- you'd need the same thing for both games.<br /><br />As for longevity, I know people who still play Counterstrike using the original Half Life engine (released in 1998, 16 years ago). I just recently replayed Might and Magic 6 which I bought for $5 from GOG.com. <br /><br />And if you want longevity in RPGs, why wouldn't you just play with the stuff you already have? As a hobby, RPG'ing is one of the overall most cost-effective, because the hobby doesn't really change -- you can pretend just as much using D&D 2ed as you can with whatever they're foisting on us now. So arguing "you can play it for 30 years then" isn't a great argument... I can play any RPG I already have for 30 years without shelling out $150.<br /><br />Anyway, you can look forward to D&D Next all you want. I'm happy for you. I'm curious about it, as well. But trying to argue that it's cost-effective compared to other hobbies (or even other RPGs) is just plain silly.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04570340821679002851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-18795704393039538392014-04-16T00:26:19.747-04:002014-04-16T00:26:19.747-04:00Well, you sort of answered your own question. Peop...Well, you sort of answered your own question. People will pay for the product they want, even if something resembling the product the way is available for a lower price or for free.<br /><br />I haven't formed an opinion of D&D Next yet, but I've paid for several months of D&D Insider, which offers content and services roughly analogous to what's available for free on the Pathfinder SRD and other free tools. I pay because I strongly prefer 4th edition as a system and a product.<br /><br />Still, I think Wizards of the Coast could learn some lessons from Paizo. There is a certain degree of sticker shock when a person learns that to play more than a couple sessions of the latest iteration of D&D that they have to shell out upwards of $100. It seems like a short-sighted approach, considering all the money they could make from D&DI subscriptions and selling supplements if a large player base can be developed. That's assuming they intend D&D Next to be an enduring product line and not just a quick, soon-to-be-abandoned cash grab.Tukkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12497013702677532773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-85905022625026291502014-04-16T00:23:36.494-04:002014-04-16T00:23:36.494-04:00Well, you sort of answered your own question. Peop...Well, you sort of answered your own question. People will pay for the product they want, even if something resembling the product the way is available for less or for free.<br /><br />I haven't formed an opinion of D&D Next yet, but I've paid for several months of D&D Insider, which offers content and services roughly analogous to what's available for free on the Pathfinder SRD and other free tools. I pay because I strongly prefer 4th edition as a system and a product.<br /><br />Still, I think Wizards of the Coast could learn some lessons from Paizo. There is a certain degree of sticker shock when a person learns that to play more than a couple sessions of the latest iteration of D&D that they have to shell out upwards of $100. It seems like a short-sighted approach, with all the money they could make from D&DI subscriptions and selling supplements after they get players' foot in the door. That's assuming they intend D&D Next to be an enduring product line and not just a quick, soon-to-be-replaced/abandoned cash grab.Tukkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12497013702677532773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-71633274164806333212014-03-05T18:22:11.583-05:002014-03-05T18:22:11.583-05:00I'm sure many of you know this already, but th...I'm sure many of you know this already, but the placeholder at Barnes & Noble has been removed. "Can't find what you're looking for"<br /><br />Let the speculation begin!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15428020877194075088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-73704776416015962232014-03-05T14:16:01.007-05:002014-03-05T14:16:01.007-05:00It's apples and oranges to compare the price o...It's apples and oranges to compare the price of new D&D books with the OSR. How many people in the OSR make a living writing rulebooks? I can't really criticize WotC for trying to stay in business.<br /><br />The D&D 3.0 PHB was $30, which adjusted for inflation would be $40 now. And I'm sure printing costs have increased above the rate of inflation. I'm going to adopt a wait-and-see approach. If I like the rules, then I'll pay for the books. To me at least, $50 seems reasonable, especially since D&D is the market leader and not a clone. Of course, if the system doesn't have what I want, or doesn't offer much that OSR or Pathfinder doesn't offer, then I doubt I'll get the books. Sethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06259683662827307295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-11549190442661299952014-03-04T22:36:18.319-05:002014-03-04T22:36:18.319-05:00AgreedAgreedAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15505834633702908092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-53091562364996464312014-03-04T09:19:35.359-05:002014-03-04T09:19:35.359-05:00Why buy D&D at 150 bucks when I can get OSR my...Why buy D&D at 150 bucks when I can get OSR my way at a staggering price of "free", and if not "free" a fraction of this cost in hardback.<br /><br />ERIC!https://www.blogger.com/profile/18251132223571608976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-80748611213791694582014-03-03T23:46:55.454-05:002014-03-03T23:46:55.454-05:00These D&D books are actually in competition wi...These D&D books are actually in competition with all those free and cheap clone versions of the game. In order to justify asking people to pay for their game, they have the enhanced production values and large numbers of spells and skills and such (not to mention a player network and a standard rules set). With the high production value and the need for a large volume to fit in all the options, that's part of the reason why it's $50 per book.<br /><br />You're not necessarily paying for better rules that are better playtested, or even better settings just because you're paying for it. In the case of 5e, the fans did the playtesting, the more options, more complexity and the more chance of the rules being broken, and the art isn't game-able.jdh417https://www.blogger.com/profile/14541882649762424101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-42715910989576056882014-03-03T15:50:29.150-05:002014-03-03T15:50:29.150-05:00$50 for a D&D Next PH or $50 for the Premium A...$50 for a D&D Next PH or $50 for the Premium AD&D PH. A new system or a system proven to be enjoyed by lots of people.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15505834633702908092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-12028602539325086342014-03-03T10:12:27.780-05:002014-03-03T10:12:27.780-05:00Very true, I am a sucker for adventures and clever...Very true, I am a sucker for adventures and clever supplements, fortunately I can get most of the stuff as a pdf so the 'back room' isn't busting at the seams anymore. I think the hardest mindset for me to over come is that I do not need to buy a copy of every new set of rules that is released. I have Tenkar to point me to the cream of the crop these days. Those D6 rules look interesting...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09144083215714934418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-26358962448598316892014-03-03T03:49:52.410-05:002014-03-03T03:49:52.410-05:00For a big color book of about 356 pages (I guess),...For a big color book of about 356 pages (I guess), $50,- is <i>very</i> expensive. A 612 page art book costs $35,-. And that contains <i>good</i> art.<br />Jasper Polanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14304076684060757294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-77795039272859247872014-03-03T00:39:55.512-05:002014-03-03T00:39:55.512-05:00Not to mention the Pathfinder sells PDFs of the co...Not to mention the Pathfinder sells PDFs of the core rules at $10 each.Allanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06555983863617446174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-13493459452978306492014-03-03T00:06:06.511-05:002014-03-03T00:06:06.511-05:00Mel that sounds a bit sour grapish to me.. Mel that sounds a bit sour grapish to me.. The Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670101962259531452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-49841340344008635412014-03-03T00:04:44.598-05:002014-03-03T00:04:44.598-05:00LOL Awesome!LOL Awesome!The Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670101962259531452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-43986202422028282482014-03-02T23:25:30.578-05:002014-03-02T23:25:30.578-05:00If the starter set is a complete game covering at ...If the starter set is a complete game covering at least the first 3 levels (and preferably more), then I will consider purchasing it for $20. Otherwise...pass.Geoffrey McKinneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00042661843714609025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-27764189022736969232014-03-02T22:58:34.193-05:002014-03-02T22:58:34.193-05:00Honestly, who cares about DnD? Do any of you real...Honestly, who cares about DnD? Do any of you really want to get back on the corporate splat treadmill that has defined every edition of Dnd for the past 30 years? I stuck with DnD from 1979 through four years back. But enough is enough. The value (in my opinion) just isn't there anymore.Melhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551480034601737297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-5487580080359164272014-03-02T22:09:09.361-05:002014-03-02T22:09:09.361-05:00For folks invested in the hobby for years there is...For folks invested in the hobby for years there isn't much incentive to buy anything new really outside of compulsive collecting. JDJarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07691101939920824546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-85851438841438637512014-03-02T21:58:46.263-05:002014-03-02T21:58:46.263-05:00For something that gives so many hours of entertai...For something that gives so many hours of entertainment, $150 doesn't seem like a lot of money. I'm not a kid anymore and the pennies I have aren't spread quite so thin; even so I tend to do a cost/benefit on most game stuff I buy. $30-50 for a book spread out over 40-50 4 hour games sessions a year is a deal. I tend to agree with the others who've done the comparisons to video games/phones/other electronics; pencil and paper gaming is cheap. However much the books sell for is a moot point; I already have the books I'm going to be using. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09144083215714934418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-26758244044914802352014-03-02T20:48:08.250-05:002014-03-02T20:48:08.250-05:0010 Guys want to play "Blow everything Up 4&qu...10 Guys want to play "Blow everything Up 4" on Xbox, they prepay $60.00 a pop, 3 months later they all cough up $25.00 each for the advanced tactics campaign add-on.com All 10 are into the game for $950.00, most of them will drop playing the game in a year or less, 10 guys can have one DMG, one MM, and 5 PHB for $350.00 as msrp and if its good they'll play for 2 to 30 years.JDJarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07691101939920824546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-50694696014278626092014-03-02T20:09:10.062-05:002014-03-02T20:09:10.062-05:00Yeah, the "kids can't afford it" thi...Yeah, the "kids can't afford it" thing isn't quite on mark as others point out. An AAA video game title is $60 at launch. Plus a kid into card games likely drops this much on boosters at the launch of a new set. A kid/adult into Warhammer 40K spends this much on a single model. And this is a similar purchase. This model seems to be in line with Paizo or Fantasy Filght Game RPG pricing and launch titles. Which is more akin to the WotC demographic and sales target. I think it would be cool if they entry level softbound books like Savage Worlds does - so that everyone doesn't have to buy the deluxe hardcovers at the $50 mark. fauxcryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13772555578908486849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-81444061443505984002014-03-02T20:05:48.887-05:002014-03-02T20:05:48.887-05:00I liked that they ran that public play test, but t...I liked that they ran that public play test, but that's about it. Like many here I suspect that the books will be intentionally crippled to make sure that they can sell follow-up books that finally give you "all the classes and options" as it were. I wish everybody who gets on this the best of luck. For me, there's so much classic D&D material (rules and settings and modules) that I won't be tempted to buy anything new. Except maybe a PDF here or there when they are "updating" an old module again and maybe (who knows) actually improve on the original in some way. B/X with house rules is good enough for me.Peter Fröhlichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03688076015831464616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-67359371755951809302014-03-02T19:59:34.502-05:002014-03-02T19:59:34.502-05:0050 bucks does not strike me as being too much to b...50 bucks does not strike me as being too much to be honest.<br />Its 2014, the books will be big full color deals. <br /><br />Timothy S. Brannanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02923526503305233715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-3522192444340670432014-03-02T19:44:23.123-05:002014-03-02T19:44:23.123-05:00I wouldn't have expected anything other than t...I wouldn't have expected anything other than the three book model. Hasbro, WOTC's parent company, will not be happy with a product line that doesn't bring in multi millions. That translates into huge, bloated books followed by tons of splat books. Good for the publisher, bad for the game. I'd be shocked if the intro set isn't cripple ware since a small, reasonably priced boxed set that is all you need to play won't make enough money. That's where the OSR wins, OSR products are a labor of love and Next is a corporate endeavor that must make millions quickly or Hasbro pulls the plug.Zarcanthropushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15779352383475388486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-50017739343619977132014-03-02T19:41:42.453-05:002014-03-02T19:41:42.453-05:00I'm actually surprised they aren't more. ...I'm actually surprised they aren't more. As far as they aren't priced for kids...like someone mentioned above, I see a lot of kids using $500 iphones, ipads, and all the other i's. If they want to play they game they'll get it. Or they could do what we used to do when I was a kid. None of us could afford all three books, so one would by the DMG, another the PHB and we'd share and figure out the game together. Gothridge Manorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11371740532802642972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-59197890196330231642014-03-02T19:39:21.188-05:002014-03-02T19:39:21.188-05:00Yeah, but it's not just inflation. If you look...Yeah, but it's not just inflation. If you look at wages, they've pretty much been stagnant since then, at least for most people.<br /><br />It's one of the reasons the prices of video games have only increased a little ($60 vs $40 back then), despite not taking 100s of people to make, instead of just one guy.<br /><br /> Or hardware, even Sony tried launching the PS3 at $600, which adjusted for inflation wasn't bad, but they lost much of their market share because of it. So they launched the next one at $400, while MS went for $500 and lost out this time.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06440605975564288373noreply@blogger.com