tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post6385407744904844617..comments2024-03-27T20:09:00.283-04:00Comments on Tenkar's Tavern: Late Night Thoughts on Ruling and Rules, or Why I'll Never Run an RPG "By the Book" Ever AgainTenkarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-23606637032063402015-01-06T13:22:31.665-05:002015-01-06T13:22:31.665-05:00I always just use the rules from AD&D that see...I always just use the rules from AD&D that seem useful to my game and discard the rest. Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-79706345620177164102015-01-05T10:36:37.765-05:002015-01-05T10:36:37.765-05:00This is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of gam...This is a false dichotomy. There are plenty of games where you can play 100% in the rules and yet have the flexibility to have home rulings on things which aren't detailed down to the letter I'm the rules. However, this requires being willing to go outside a different box: the D&D box. And you can go outside that box and stay in the fantasy dungeon crawl box. Kirt Dankmyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15176693641755312121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-79768407612624932202015-01-05T10:33:53.551-05:002015-01-05T10:33:53.551-05:00Erik-
I read that paragraph, back in the day. I ...Erik-<br /><br />I read that paragraph, back in the day. I also read the Afterword, which says in part:<br /><br />"IT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME, NOT THE LETTER OF THE RULES, WHICH IS IMPORTANT. NEVER HOLD TO THE LETTER WRITTEN, NOR ALLOW SOME BARRACKS ROOM LAWYER TO FORCE QUOTATIONS FROM THE RULE BOOK UPON YOU, IF IT GOES AGAINST THE OBVIOUS INTENT OF THE GAME. AS YOU HEW THE LINE WITH RESPECT TO CONFORMITY TO MAJOR SYSTEMS AND UNIFORMITY OF PLAY IN GENERAL..."<br /><br />(The CAPSLOCK is how it's presented in the book, not me being shouty.)<br /><br />I guess I always took to heart the very first sentence in the Afterward. That resonates with me much more than all the "only use Official AD&D products" and such references that people on the net always pick apart. <br /><br />I never got the feeling that the spectre of EGG was standing over my shoulder, shaking his head in disapproval at my house rulings back in the 80s, or today. I guess we all take from Gary's works what we want to find. There is certainly enough seemingly contradictory material to support whatever conclusion any J. Random gamer would like to find. <br /><br />But for me, as a whole, I don't feel the constraints that others do when it comes to AD&D.Grumpy Old Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11087904102183244773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-43883808515992650932015-01-04T17:19:00.421-05:002015-01-04T17:19:00.421-05:00Players want to feel their actons will dictate out...Players want to feel their actons will dictate outcomes, that choices will matter and they are not just going along for a ride on the DM's railroad.<br /> If the campaign isn't waiting for the PCs ad things actually occasonally happen when and where they are lookinng the travel times between points matter. <br />Risking 2 likely encounters instead of 4 isn't worrying about coconut airspeeds.JDsivrajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10674833512849495283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-53565462431475142572015-01-04T14:14:09.770-05:002015-01-04T14:14:09.770-05:00Hear, hear! Hear, hear! Darcy Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385198563203931754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-19497466404045735512015-01-04T11:44:36.632-05:002015-01-04T11:44:36.632-05:00No insult taken. Sometimes the obvious is so obvio...No insult taken. Sometimes the obvious is so obvious it's not so obvious ;)Tenkarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-14989667857283602062015-01-04T11:21:14.775-05:002015-01-04T11:21:14.775-05:00This is going to sound like an insult. It's n...This is going to sound like an insult. It's not meant to be. Erik, you are very good at saying obvious things well. Maybe they're only obvious after you say them. This is actually a very rare skill, and I love coming here and seeing what you have to say about things.Scott Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067161332003628237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-43115826376088782982015-01-04T10:02:39.754-05:002015-01-04T10:02:39.754-05:00JDsivraj, that's only true for information tha...JDsivraj, that's only true for information that is relevant. In the example I gave, the campaign was a dungeon crawling game where travel time never actually mattered. While I can understand why the player wanted to follow the rules as written, he was focusing on something that really didn't matter.<br /><br />It's still down to a fundamental difference in preferences. If the players want to send a coconut to England, some people will be happy with the DM saying that it takes so many days. Others will want to find the rules for the airspeed velocity of two laden African swallows.<br /><br />There's a balancing act between having rules for every possible situation (which is impossible, as Tenkar says) and trusting the DM to rule things fairly (and we've all had bad experiences with this too, I bet). The challenge is that we all have different opinions on where the perfect range on this spectrum is.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07508110598542072738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-51995402992776446562015-01-04T09:34:09.721-05:002015-01-04T09:34:09.721-05:00Players also like to have firm ground under their ...Players also like to have firm ground under their feet, if this trip is 2 days long from point A to point B becasue the party is on a road moving through rolling hills and itks x miles long the player will be able to make an accurate guess at how the trip from point C to point D will be. DM's must recall players are in an information vacuum and it is the role of the player to do well by fining out every bit of infomaion they can and make decissions based on that, the rules are one source of that information.JDsivrajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10674833512849495283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-84943145713130826172015-01-04T08:32:33.288-05:002015-01-04T08:32:33.288-05:00I had DMed game once where the party travelled fro...I had DMed game once where the party travelled from Town A to Town B. Someone asked how long it took, and I said "two days" off the cuff. One of my players started asking questions about distances, whether they were on the road or travelling through wilderness, and so on, and looked up the travel time section in the rulebook to verify whether my ruling was accurate.<br /><br />Issues about respecting DM authority aside, I think the incident illustrated the basic difference in approach. Some of us like to be able to find a written rule for everything, while others prefer to have only a few rules for the most common and important situations. I put myself into the latter category - even though travel times have been part of the rules for a long time, I only use them when I think they're important.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07508110598542072738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-90915137418588565462015-01-04T07:31:09.538-05:002015-01-04T07:31:09.538-05:00What matters in the end is play at the table and e...What matters in the end is play at the table and everyone's buying into the rules & rulings that facilitate it. If everyone is having a great time, rule sets, house rules and rulings fade into the background as the shared story forms the fun.<br />I am all in favor of a player designing their own character, but I find that random charts help players create character that may would not play otherwise. In Dragonquest I had designed height, weight, skin, hair and eye charts. If the character wanted to add other features, that was up to them. All random, but often more fun than what was originally in their concept. Dragonquest provided players with a social status and birthright for background which was fun.<br />When I first started gaming I was very much a rules person. Time, comfort with the game and aging has made me more of a rulings person. While I jokingly mock certain systems out of gaming snobbery; game choice, rule sets and rulings are all secondary to table play. If everyone is having a good time, mission accomplished. Life is too short to argue about rules and time is too precious for me to wait for the GM to find the right book or rule before the game can move forward.Padrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05722958681098483324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-83724969804478314542015-01-04T06:02:56.164-05:002015-01-04T06:02:56.164-05:00I been saying this for a while about AD&D vs D...I been saying this for a while about AD&D vs D&D. It one of the reason opted to use Swords & Wizardry for the Majestic Wilderlands.Robert Conleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863009007381185340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-1680200545836527482015-01-04T02:49:38.224-05:002015-01-04T02:49:38.224-05:00Forgot to add, as far as tables for things like he...Forgot to add, as far as tables for things like height and weight go, I loved 'em but we never treated those as rules. They were purely optional details that you could choose or roll for, if you even used them at all. I actually collected quite a few tables for various background elements and would try craft something coherent from the results, essentially discovering my characters instead of just making themHolly Oatshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01703437987958922954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-2498249102172019992015-01-04T02:36:29.759-05:002015-01-04T02:36:29.759-05:00"... [AD&D] was not meant to be tweaked t..."... [AD&D] was not meant to be tweaked to fit your home game and your players..."<br /><br />I've always taken this to mean that it's still D&D, just not "Advanced". AD&D's kinda like Gary's attempt at FLAILSNAILS conventions, rather than some prescribed One True Way<br /><br />"2e begat more rules and 3x even more."<br /><br />A shame, because, while 3.0's no longer my preferred edition, it did a great job providing an engine suited for rulings. Unfortunately, they then proceeded to drown it rules, shooting themselves in the foot<br /><br />I used to like having things spelled out a little more, back when I was more of a 3tard. It felt like the game was helping to teach how to make rulings, and giving me some training wheels when I was new or coming back after a long break. Then I was prepping a Kalamar campaign a couple years back and figured I'd make a personal PHB collating various house rules and supplemental material (figured I'd take a closer look at the changes in 3.5 too, which is how I realized they got damn near everything wrong), partly for ease and partly 'cause some interested parties had never played before. Didn't take me long to realize how stupid and redundant most of that stuff was. Some of it might've been fine for fine for an advice book, like <i>Dungeon Mastering for Dummies</i>, but a rulebook needs to be slim and information denseHolly Oatshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01703437987958922954noreply@blogger.com