tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post4510106452281364614..comments2024-03-27T20:09:00.283-04:00Comments on Tenkar's Tavern: Some Further Thoughts on Why I see the OSR in General as "Underserved"Tenkarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-57070616860708676732017-06-16T04:44:12.662-04:002017-06-16T04:44:12.662-04:00It's interesting when I see this looked at fro...It's interesting when I see this looked at from the market angle... There's DIY and fanzine ethos, but it still ends up being a market. Sometimes interesting ideas come out of reversing ideas... so, what if we don't look at the size of the current market, which could technically be ascertained by some lead publishers giving us figures.<br /><br />It can't be that small because Goodman Games seems to have more people on staff than the Wizards would consider to push out their own 5e content (ignoring freelancers here because staffers are the mouths you are expected to feed every month). Yes, they do have a 5e line, but their only Pathfinder product seems to be the niche game XCrawl.<br /><br />So, if these guys gave us numbers we could ascertain the size of the OSR market. The Frog Gods, Goodman, the Troll Lords, somewhere between them they have the reach to take a lion share of the D&D-centric OSR money for themselves.<br /><br />More interesting I find the other number we could not possibly hope to find out. The truly DIY guys. The guys that buy one or two rulesets and roll out their own campaigns and never look back. They are no market. Some of them are truly old school as they started back in the day and never stopped. Some of them have dozens of worlds lying around, are writing rulesets of their own, that kind of thing. <br /><br />Now, not claiming these are vastly outnumbering the buyers of OSR products. Because we cannot know that. But these guys are the non-market segment that won't show up in any market-derived statistics but might even consider themselves part of the OSR if they know about it.<br /><br />It's the same with the few people I know that show up at cons and offer old games. They are the tip of an iceberg, a sort of a dark net of roleplaying. Because I keep on finding out who plays RPGs here in my home town and most of these people never know about each other, maybe changing group about once or twice a decade if ever. Just by wearing RPG-themed shirts and talking to my local FLGS owner, looking across forums and player-search sites, advertising with posters, etc, I have gotten a notion of how much bigger the scene really is than is actually known. People keep looking for games, people keep trying to offer games, they might never materialize. But there's many people out there not part of any community, or still playing what they liked. Old editions of anything, lots of 90s stuff.<br /><br />There's a lot of disconnect between all these groups. People might be in one of them, people might overlap into several groups. Roleplaying is like an underground activity because you only need a book or two, dice, and a few friends, and nobody else will ever know. Many players might never consider themselves roleplayers but just people who show up to play with a friend without considering it part of their identity in any way.<br /><br />Having said that, I could possible conclude that a lot of the whole RPG "scene" is an underserved market. Some people keep buying stuff because that's how they run games. I belong to the group that buys stuff that sounds interesting but I might never use it. People buy stuff for their analog or digital shelves. People collect. Some people never buy stuff again and game the shit out of what they have. Some people only go to their FLGS, some only shop online.<br /><br />So, I think we can't say for sure it's an underserved market, I guess. But it's one of the most complicated markets out there. If you sell screws, people might buy them for all kinds of reasons, but they won't roll their own or only buy one pair and work with that forever. I think it could drive some economists positively mad, to be frank. Could be a fun exercise. ;-)DerKastellanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17108771318010984386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-42985994496197957082017-06-14T09:19:51.148-04:002017-06-14T09:19:51.148-04:00The following is copy/pasted from a recent ENworld...The following is copy/pasted from a recent ENworld article about heartbreakers...<br /><br />"With OGLs available, people think less about their systems. They consider what's out there to be close enough, tweak it, and run with it. Then they end up with a system that, in many cases, doesn't really fit their setting material (unless that setting is a close replication to the setting the OGL derives from, if there is one)."Venger Satanishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04447932700800930510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-65020418779025246322017-06-13T21:56:54.335-04:002017-06-13T21:56:54.335-04:00I was going to argue that I knew of several... the...I was going to argue that I knew of several... then I noticed that most of them seem to be defunct.<br /><br />Maybe I'll do more OSR content. I've been trying to put myself out there more. Maybe some more White Star, Starships and Spacemen, X-Plorers, and Metamorphosis Alpha would do the trick... Brainstorming time. If there is anything anybody would like to see let me know.Capheindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02997192956379221275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-47127842870288047342017-06-13T18:59:14.570-04:002017-06-13T18:59:14.570-04:00Its under-represented in the market place and in t...Its under-represented in the market place and in the minds of those that distribute gaming material.<br /><br />I think there is a dearth of general OSR podcastsTenkarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-74684693668200304602017-06-13T18:56:33.141-04:002017-06-13T18:56:33.141-04:00It wasn't until I lost my job and started back...It wasn't until I lost my job and started back at school that I realized how much of my money dice and OBS ate :P I've started a Youtube channel lately, but I don't have much OSR stuff planned for that yet. <br /><br />I'm curious, do you simply mean the OSR is under-represented in Published material? or in General? Does the OSR need yet another podcast?Capheindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02997192956379221275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-34315504813896555532017-06-13T18:33:56.201-04:002017-06-13T18:33:56.201-04:00On the matter of, "Well, there is the percept...On the matter of, "Well, there is the perception that OSR gamers are cheap. We want our gaming inspiration and material for nothing, or close to it.", I think those that realize that the truth is actually the opposite (Frog Good, Goodman Games) are doing a hell of a business. Almost every OSR based kickstarter from them that I have been a part of has been extremely successful.<br /><br />They make good OSR products that are not by any means cheap, and they are in demand. GoblinTownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01581086905067121688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-52156140478037235232017-06-13T12:56:16.442-04:002017-06-13T12:56:16.442-04:00As one gets older, money is more disposable but ti...As one gets older, money is more disposable but time is more valuable.<br /><br />To be honest, I rarely run any purchased adventure as written. I tweak it with my 35+ years of experience as a gamer, primarily as a DM, to fit the style that fits me.<br /><br />If the OSR were to stop producing more material for its community, that community would stop growing or worse.<br /><br />I personally love the idea of a thriving and growing OSR Community. It makes me smile. Seriously.Tenkarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-2094472800079229612017-06-13T12:50:12.287-04:002017-06-13T12:50:12.287-04:00Y'know, it's interesting. I hadn't re...Y'know, it's interesting. I hadn't really considered that DIY is not typical of the OSR; I started with Moldvay Basic, and as much of my gaming experience has been spent dreaming things up as playing. It was just a natural part of the RPG experience for me, but I'd always assumed it was common to the OSR, and the lack of DIY (The D was for Doing this time, it's grammatical) was an effect of fiddly new school systems rather than just, like, modernity. It hadn't occurred to me that dreaming junk up and assigning gaming stats to it was a skill I'd been honing for, like, my entire life.<br /><br />I guess I'm saying that I hadn't realized how underserved the OSR is, looking at it from the inside. You know what could really help to popularize the OSR? If an experienced gamer with enough time, say a recent retiree, could put together a accessible, streamlined version of a popular OSR ruleset, and oversee a magazine to provide supplementary materiel for people just getting into the OSR.<br /><br />. . . What, Tenkar, why are staring at me like that?Caleb Collinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12858260507123306044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-75108753989747607102017-06-13T11:08:49.305-04:002017-06-13T11:08:49.305-04:00My experience has suggested that the OSR market is...My experience has suggested that the OSR market is small (a few hundred strong) but dedicated (they will buy everything OSR). That's the corner with money and a collector's interest....presumably there are as usual many more players who buy nothing but maybe the core rules they need.....if even that, since it is usually possible to get free PDFs of most of the popular OSR rulesets.Doctor Futurityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02586371999646337047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-58612871899979151992017-06-13T10:35:57.536-04:002017-06-13T10:35:57.536-04:00I hope you are right about the OST community not b...I hope you are right about the OST community not being cheap. I am heartened that Dark Wizard Games (formerly Maximum Mayhem Dungeons) can charge $20 for a module and get it. $20 - $30 for a 16-32 page black and white adventure with color covers inside and out should be priced in that range.<br /><br />However, OBS strongly pushes publishers into the $4.99 bracket because that is where they see the highest quantity of sales. Not sure what that means for your statement, and unless OBS and Mark Taormino release their sales figures I'm not sure we'll ever know.Alex Karaczunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08624428676205712052noreply@blogger.com