tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post2868304052660596473..comments2024-03-27T20:09:00.283-04:00Comments on Tenkar's Tavern: Wherein the "B Team" Delves into the Castle of the Mad ArchmageTenkarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05159289652051155824noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-62845956709398212762014-04-02T14:51:55.765-04:002014-04-02T14:51:55.765-04:00I work on rpol, and what I do is scan a map page, ...I work on rpol, and what I do is scan a map page, then dysonize it and blank off the markings using paint. When it comes up in play, I cut and paste a small section to the group map. Most of my Dysonizing comes from a 2"x2" square I repeatedly cut and paste from, and I use a blank square cut from the image to paste with, as scans don't come over white enough to erase cleanly.Gwythainthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05184355400691527355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-62332363329731656872014-03-31T19:33:54.651-04:002014-03-31T19:33:54.651-04:00As a player in Erik's game, I'd say an unk...As a player in Erik's game, I'd say an unkeyed map would improve our enjoyment of the game and significantly heighten that tension that you want to see in your megadungeon. It would be very nice to have one. Lacking one, we lose some of the tension.<br /><br />Is it really objectionable to provide an unkeyed map if the GM and players could find one useful and good for their mode of play? I mean that as a direct and simple question.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-47723181020567100362014-03-30T18:49:59.748-04:002014-03-30T18:49:59.748-04:00Apologies if I wasn't clear; the fault is enti...Apologies if I wasn't clear; the fault is entirely mine. I am absolutely not saying "no, you don't want X." I'm saying that this particular adventure wasn't designed with X in mind. If you want to adapt it to work in a world that uses X, that's great, and more power to you. That's true whether X is support for Runequest, or using it via Roll20, or playing with 4E-style battlemaps, or plot-driven story lines and railroady adventure paths. It's only by adapting it to one's own particular playing style and needs that CotMA truly comes alive, and it's impossible to support everyone's needs and wishes. So I wrote it for the way I play (face to face on a tabletop, where the GM describes what the players see, with occasional recourse to a whiteboard if there's something particularly tricky), and if others adapt it to the way *they* play, that's AWESOME!<br /><br />But it's not fair to say that a lack of X is somehow a failure when it was never designed for X, any more than it's a failure for a Camaro not to seat a family of six. It is what it is, and if you absolutely, positively, *have* to have X, and aren't willing to do the work to make it X-compatible, it's probably not for you. And that's fair enough; get the minivan instead of the sportscar.<br /><br />And, for what it's worth, Erik specifically said that it wasn't a complaint so much as a wish-list item. Personally, I'd love to see a Roll20 that specifically supported "line of sight only" views, that were dynamic enough that when the players teleported somewhere, the system was smart enough to change their surroundings in the "dark" areas. But I know that's not what Roll20 does, and that's fine. I work around it, or don't use it.Greyhawk Grognardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13929743865700766901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-45479985411627632662014-03-30T08:32:51.945-04:002014-03-30T08:32:51.945-04:00The thing is, though, he's not describing the ...The thing is, though, he's not describing the map to us. He's revealing parts of the map in Roll20. So if he doesn't have an unkeyed map, we know that room is Room #2 or there is a big #42 in the hallway.<br /><br />It would go as you say if he was describing what we see, but honestly, how that would work with 3-4 players remote from each other trying to draw a map to show each other would be difficult. It's smoother to have Erik just show us what we see, and easier for him if that map was also unkeyed.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-58278316616745124832014-03-30T05:31:51.094-04:002014-03-30T05:31:51.094-04:00See, if publishers include a "player's ma...See, if publishers include a "player's map" it gives me the option of either using it in my online game or not. It's up to me. If they don't, I either have to make my own or play the game the way Joseph Bloch describes. I have no choice in the matter. <br /><br />Joseph, a customer is telling you they would like X, and your answer is "no, you don't want X. You're playing the game wrong." Whether you agree that something is or isn't "needed" is not relevant, is it?<br /><br />Personally, I'm not very good at describing the layout of rooms and tunnels and such. For better or for worse, my brain doesn't really work that way, so I don't want to bog my game down with trying to make sure players understand things about basic layout that, in my opinion, their characters would pick up just from looking at a room. Do I want to give them a 100% accurate map that they can look at whenever they want? No, what I'd rather do is turn on line of sight so that only the part of the map where they're standing is visible. That, to me, represents a nice compromise between revealing the whole map and having to spend time describing mundane layout features. Especially in an online game, where I lose almost 100% of my non-verbal communication, a simple map to act as a visual aid is really, really helpful to me.Drewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16844959687301550378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-61003875912268316302014-03-29T23:58:13.693-04:002014-03-29T23:58:13.693-04:00I've taken to GIMPing my pdf maps to edit out ...I've taken to GIMPing my pdf maps to edit out the stuff the players shouldn't see. It's not quite as tedious as you might think, and also allows you to make changes to the map in case you're not 100% satisfied with the original.Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03635743377768116998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-62438898758155170082014-03-29T22:15:29.916-04:002014-03-29T22:15:29.916-04:00I disagree; it's not needed. You can certainly...I disagree; it's not needed. You can certainly do online gaming with "theater of the mind's eye", letting the players map by verbal descriptions just like you do at a face-to-face game. Or a digital whiteboard, which gets erased room by room. But showing the map as it is (even with the keys and secret doors redacted) to the players does them and the adventure a disservice, as you're losing a lot of features deliberately built into it that add to the experience. <br /><br />It's hard to engender a feeling of paranoia and impending doom with minotaurs and giant boars hunting you in a labyrinth when you can see the way out is three lefts and a right, and if the GM suddenly switches to a new map in a long corridor, it's a sure sign that you just went down a sloping passage (as sure as seeing a big "42" in the middle of the corridor)...Greyhawk Grognardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13929743865700766901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-10395639567433034202014-03-29T21:54:13.455-04:002014-03-29T21:54:13.455-04:00But for online gaming.. unless you don't use a...But for online gaming.. unless you don't use a centralized map.. its needed..The Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670101962259531452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-47817181620304898762014-03-29T21:52:52.963-04:002014-03-29T21:52:52.963-04:00I totally agree about the unkeyed map.. I usually ...I totally agree about the unkeyed map.. I usually make my own but its still a pain in the ass..The Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670101962259531452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-91790222842242410932014-03-29T20:23:43.953-04:002014-03-29T20:23:43.953-04:00The lack of a player's map is quite intentiona...The lack of a player's map is quite intentional, Erik. Since there are so many opportunities built into the module for the PCs' mapping efforts to go awry (teleporters, sloping passages, elevator rooms, mazes, shifting walls, etc., etc., etc.) to give them a map which they know by its very nature is infallible would render a lot of the features of the dungeon unusable. Keep running the adventure, and you will know the unimaginable joy of players actually throwing their maps across the room, declaring them "worthless" because they don't match up with their expectations. :-)Greyhawk Grognardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13929743865700766901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1724254580047847936.post-89557460718843806732014-03-29T20:20:44.877-04:002014-03-29T20:20:44.877-04:00We are pretty awesome.
The blank PDF map thing ou...We are pretty awesome.<br /><br />The blank PDF map thing ought to be a law or something. It's hard not to metagame when you see a big "42" in the middle of the freaking corridor in front of you. "Uh, we check for traps."Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.com