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Thursday, November 6, 2014

Another WTF are They Thinking Kickstarter - Drastic Measures

How many points are the Gang-Bangers on Skateboards?
Alright, I need to quote before I can comment:
Drastic Measures is designed to be the middle ground between "hardcore" games like D&D or Warhammer, and board games like Risk.  Each player picks a race (rules exist for mixtures) and assembles an army of units that vary in strength and utility.  Each unit has a specific name that coordinates its abilities, weaknesses, and expense.  A basic unit, having less effect on other pieces, will cost less to add to your army.  A cowboy with a single pistol and 20HP will cost 15 points to add, whereas a bazooka wielding soldier, even with the same 20HP, will cost 75 points.
Uhm... D&D is not a wargame. Is it even "hardcore?"

Alright, I just don't get this whole Drastic Measure point at all?

Is it a skirmish wargame using freely available toy soldiers and the like?

Just think - all they want to raise is $3,000.

Short turn around too.

So not getting my money...

33 comments:

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    1. they can save money if they dont bother attempting to patent that which can not be patented ;)

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    2. If i don't patent it, someone could steal it. Simply put, in order to publicize I must consider getting it copyrighted at least.

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  2. I'm disappointed that the dinosaur is not carnivorous. I'm still LMAO about the gang-bangers on skateboards.

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    1. There are also T-Rex, Pterodactyl, Velociraptor and Stogosaurus. The "Bite Roll" is exclusive to the carnivorous dinosaurs. Triceratops has a "Charge Roll" which has the potential to kill more enemy units than the "Bite Roll" but uses a D8 instead of a D6, which allows for room for fails, being that a triceratops charge is more uncertain that a t-rex's bite.

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  3. Wow.... I mean just... wow!

    It's like they are saying my kids have been playing combat with their toys all wrong. Rules to play the game that they have been playing on their own since they were 3 years old? And if there is a disagreement, there will be a ten minute argument to resolve the conflict while the rule book is consulted. Whereas when my kids had a disagreement, they would debate back and forth for a minute and then come to an decision that kept the game moving forward and fun for both of them... Ye gods! WTF indeed!

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    1. The rule book takes SECONDS to consult. A ten minute argument is easily avoided.

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  4. I agree this seems badly thought out. If you're publishing a rules lite mini-wargame that uses cheaply available plastic toys and grocery store miniatures, why would you require multiple dice types? If this is targeted at casual gamers, or kids, wouldn't it make more sense to just require D6s for resolution, since those are easily available in most boardgames, or sold just as cheaply as dinosaur and cowboy and Indian minis at grocery stores?

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    1. All dice are fairly cheap. Spending $5 on a full set of dice is nothing in comparison to what people spend on collectible games. This is the middle ground between $20 board-games and collectible games.

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  5. "My Tonka Truck does 4d20 damage! Rwarrrrr! Take that you skateboarding scum...also, pew,pew, your dead!

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    1. 12d6 would be much more fun to roll. :-)

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  6. ;-) Yeah, in childhood I made it simple, too. My astronauts and the German Africa Corps were allies, as both had a beige color. The Enemy then were US GI's with Wehrmacht soldiers (I never had enough money, nor the nimble fingers, to get the brown Russians or olive British). x-) Such minor deviance from historical correctness did never spoil those games. And here: Did you forget Shadowrun? Look again! That red figure of an American Native (Amerindian by Shadowrun) Shaman covers behind two other Amerindians while healing the Dino who gets shot by that blue guy with a submachine gun! Meanwhile skateboarders prepare their own assault and the enemy red and black troops left on picture certainly intercept! ONLY problem is does kickstarter really fund everything???

    And from the records of uhm... Candlekeep: Chainmail included a D&D skirmish system pretty early-on. Birthright had realm-regency and military units to lead... My guess has always been that later officials were simply too dumb and too lazy to work it into the new editions.

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  7. I think we all wrote these rules, at least one. Am I right?

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  8. Drastic Measures...that says it all.

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  9. I actually played couple of games back in the day using Tom Moldways Dino Wars rules from Dragon MAgazine.

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  10. now i have mars attacks rules will use for all my toy based games for kids

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  11. a blog could achieve all this easily - anyone could do it - just take photos and show some cool battles

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  12. Sorry if this is a double post, I'm not sure if my first attempt went through. Here is a free set of rules that already do this:
    http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/141885/plastic-hell

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  13. I'd love some constructive feedback. My rules are MUCH more complex that Plastic Hell. For regular people, D&D is definitely "hardcore". It takes more time, patience, and skill to play than a standard board game. This project has a low goal because I'm not trying to make money. I started out with a really low financial goal, and kickstarter said I should increase it. You can go write some rules that are similar. Mine are better though, I assure you.

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    1. I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this but since you asked. The problem with your Kickstarter is that you aren't actually raising money to produce a product rather you are raising money to explore the idea of producing a product. Maybe that's a legitimate use of Kickstarter but it's not going to get my money. I contribute to Kickstarter in order to invest in an actual finished product not to help people develop their ideas.

      You say "My vision is a large plastic tub with 10 players' worth of units, custom terrain, dice, rules, unit coasters, and a reusable scoreboard. Retail ~ $60." If that's what you were offering in this Kickstarter and the minis were cool and you had some details about what the finished rule book would look like, you could have my money all day. You have a really fun idea, it's not original mind you, see "Fuzzy Heroes," but it's definitely fun, however, it is not ready for Prime Time.

      If you believe in this product, my recommendation is that you invest your own time and money in procuring supplies, doing the research, talk to some sculptors and manufacturers, maybe look into 3D printing and come back to Kickstarter when you have something more concrete to offer, as in an actual product I would be excited about buying.

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    2. I mean it's five bucks for a .pdf file. It's a starting point. There's a big step from where I am now to producing the game in full plastic. I want to see if people are interested enough. I could and would totally just give away the rules to people who will actually care enough to read them. The five bucks is just showing interest. Should I lower it to a dollar? Should I just kill the kickstarter? Do you even want to read the rules? I'm not asking rhetorically or sarcastically. I genuinely want to know how interested you are.

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    3. Yes kill the kickstarter go back to the drawing board and look at what successful kickstarters at your funding level produced to reach there goal. The item your offering should be created on your dime and time and then you release it into the world to see if there is an interest. You will NOT make your goal even if you lowered it to 250 bucks since no one is going to spend money on a no named person who put almost no effort into there campaign and has NO DEMO.

      To be honest your kickstarter comes off as a money grab and that boat has sailed for people like you on kickstarter. If you want a quick buck why not just create some milled dice or a dice bag.

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  14. Drastic Measures uses all the dice types to incorporate numerous probabilities. A "Scout Roll" is only a D4 because a Scout looking through his binoculars isn't as volatile as a "Mutiny Roll" on the pirates, which uses a D12. I'd absolutely love to send a copy of the rules to you guys to see what you really think, instead of a bunch of dumb jokes about someone else's project. I've been working on this for years. Drastic Measures came out of a desire to play Warhammer without spending money or painting with toothpicks.

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  15. My email is bonsaizealotry@gmail.com. If anyone here has time and/or interest enough to look over the rules and provide opinions regarding more than just the idea of the game, please correspond. I can totally understand why "more than casual' gamers might see this as a pointless idea. It might very well even BE a pointless idea. I hope it wasn't too much to jump on here and defend my idea. Although I was a bit hurt by the comments, please know they are helpful.

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  16. Jason, take your game and a couple tubs of figures to a game convention or three. Playtest it there. No one is going to steal your idea.

    In addition to not understanding that one cannot patent game rules, you have never backed a Kickstarter project, and you have no game design credits to your name. Your description and pictures indicate the game isn't ready for prime time. And playtesting isn't finished. These things are called "red flags."

    There are enough red flags that I can see a future update saying "Well, I had to spend all your money setting up a corporation and flying my design team to Vegas so we could attend CES. Picked up some weird virus (maybe from the buffet sushi?) and have been unable to progress much on the game these past three months."

    Good luck.

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    1. Doug, I agree with you that's it not ready for prime time. Without testing the waters with a relatively low-budget kickstarter project, I would have no way to know how the community feels. If my project doesn't get backed, so be it, I've lost nothing. Going to a gaming convention is definitely in my future, and backing a project on kickstarter is something I'd love to do. Thank you for your well wishes, and please know in you heart that no one should ever touch buffet sushi. XD

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  18. Alright, for anyone still reading this, I just dropped the price of the rules for Drastic Measures to $1.

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  19. I like how this project is saying, "you can play an miniature based game without all that expense". It could be the gateway drug. I think maybe the discription could be a lot better, but I like the idea even if I am not into wargames. I disagree with one dollar being too expensive for a PDF of the rules. Good luck Jason.

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  20. Why kickstart? Make the rules PDF, put on RPGNow. Look how many you sell, how much people download and pay if PWYW. If a success then kickstart a "deluxe" version!

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